I realize this isn't a new topic but I'm a new member. I've read the recent threads of those who are or have gone through this recently, and for each of you I am thankful. Each situation is obviously unique and there is no blueprint for anyone to follow, so I am posting my story for your input. I'm a 40 yo married male. I hate labels and do not consider myself 100% gay. I'm not totally versed in the Kinsey scale but would say at this point that I'm 60-70% same-sex oriented. I've been married 17 years and together for 23 years (we met in high school). Briefly, I started messing around with guys in fifth grade. I've abused alcohol to help me deal with my feelings and in the course of getting the courage to be with guys. My marriage is unhappy and frought with conflict. I too am like many in that I have finally realized that most of my frustrations center around the fact that I am living a restrained life by not being able to be honest about who I am and what I'm feelingg. Therefore, I probably overreact to many of my wife's comments/complaints/bitching as being more controlling than they are, but nevertheless in the grand scheme of my secret life, additional controls that I resist. I'm am depressed, take anti-depressants, feel like I don't really connect with my wife, and am left with lots of hostility toward her. Our sex life has never been robust. She recently asked why I'm not more intereseted in sex with her because all of her friends' husband allegedly always pester them to get some (we typically have sex once or twice every 4-6 weeks). As a result of my unhappiness I drink a lot, have little tolerance for our kids, and very little tolerance for my wife. I've met a gay man who has been in a long-term relationship and for the first time realized that I can have an emotional as well as physical relationship with a man. While he is amazing, I have no intention of leaving my wife for him. Rather, I will only leave her for me. If he is still around that is merely a bonus. If you're still reading this, thank you. I realize it is long. Since we met in high school, my wife knows that I had a brief same-sex realtionship with a gay friend of my mine. He told her at a high school party. Because of that, she has at time questioned whether I am gay. I do not know why, because I am masculine and nobody would have any idea that I am attracted to men. My wife recently found an email in February this year that I sent to a married guy that I saw a few times in another city (I travel frequently for work and, like many on here, use that as my outlet for satisfying my urges). The email was fairly innocuous but she interrogated me about it and asked if I was having an affair and/or was gay. She even said that we could seek counseling if I would just admit it, etc. I, of course, denied it. I was out of town at the time and, beyond the survivial instinct of outright denial, did not thing it was the best way to deal with the situation. Anway, fast forward to the present. I feel that my marriage will never reach a point of stability and that the problems that exist are due to my frustrations, limitations, etc. I can no longer live a lie and am tired of hiding who I am. I have decided to come out to my wife, although coming out seems to imply that I am totally gay when I am, in fact, still attracted to women, but I think my happiness lies in having a male-male relationship. I do not know when the timing will be right. I know it never is but I am hesistant to do it before the upcoming holidays. So, I am looking at early next year. I am hoping that since she has suspected that I'm attracted to guys for most of our relationship, along with the recent confrontation over the email, that this will not be a shock to her, but I do not know how she will react. Given my prior experience with her I do expect a lot of drama, freaking out, and overall anger. A complicating factor is that we moved out of state from our families three years ago, so I do not know if she will be inclined to move back to be around her family. This would be tough on me because I do not want to be away from our children. In my perfect world we would work through this, remain friends, and continue to raise our children together, even if not living in the same house. I also do not know if she will choose to smear my reputation among everyone we know. I certainly hope not, but my biggest concern is how she talks about me to our kids. The kids certainly do not need to know the details of why we've broken up since they are pre-teens. So, if you are still reading this, the advice I seek is this. I know many of you have gone through coming out to your wives. What I want to hear is how your kids handled it our how you attempted to shelter them from this. Also, I want to hear from those of you whose wives went a bit crazy as a result. Also, did any of you prearrange, or , if not, do you suggest, having a counselor available to direct your spouse to? I don't think I need counseling about my feelings, but I do think it could be helpful to have one tell me the protocol for breaking the news to my wife. Thanks for suffering through my rambling. I'm in the Atlanta area and would love to meet with and talk to anyone in the area that has gone through or is considering going though this with their wife.
Another issue I have not seen addressed, and which I know my wife will ask about immediately, is whether to tell your wife you've had sex with men while married. I know most of us have done it, probably with embarassing numbers of men through online hook ups or adult theater encounters, but in my quest for honesty, I do not think this is something I can be honest about. If for no other reason, if things go badly and we do divorce, I do not want admitted infidelity to be used against me. So, how have you responded to this inevitable question?
Hi, altmm! Welcome to EC! You've come to the right place! Your situation mirrors mine in many, many ways. I wish I had time to respond in detail now, but I have to get to work. I will definitely reply with a nice long post later today. In the meantime, if you haven't already, read my threads about coming out and others about my journey. I'll also get in contact with some of the other members who are in situations similar to yours. Before the end of the day, I'm sure you'll hear from several of them. The names to look for are Maxx, NomadicDave, kneedragger, JimL, Tom100, and Tracker57 (among others). Read their threads for additional insight if you have the time. Hang in there, we'll help you get through this! 55
Dear AtlantaMM, welcome to EC! I'm sure you'll be able to get some great support here and specific feedback on the questions you have. I don't have children, so can't help you with that part of your request - but my wife steadfastly refuses to see a therapist. It just isn't something she is comfortable doing. I actually think she has been handling the situation (me revealing I'm gay, then eventually leaving the marriage) quite well and we are forming the basis of remaining friends going forward. As you say, there is never a good time for dealing with this - but one thing I found was that once I realized I needed to do this, it was hard for me to slow it down - it evolved fairly quickly. It may be a challenge for you to delay working through this until next year. 55 and other members will be able to get you great feedback on working through issues with children, etc. (*hug*) Maxx
As I heterosexually married gay man, I understand how powerful it is to come out--not only to others but also to yourself. Congratulations on taking the first step to living genuinely. I've had a rough road with my wife of 31 years--we met when I was 18 and she was 17. She thought of everything we had as being a lie, but she is slowly coming to terms with our relationship. I'm about a 5 or 5.5 on the Kinsey scale, probably a good 90% gay. We are sticking together and I'm not seeing any men. But dealing with emotions and feelings with a counselor has been essential. Hang in there. It gets better. There's an old Murphy's law that "all bleeding stops eventually." Either the marriage will end or it will get better: regardless, YOU will do well. There are a bunch of us older guys just becoming true to our real selves around. Keep in touch. Cheers. Tracker
Hi, atlmm. I hope you're finding some peace today. I told you my path was similar to yours, but my marriage lasted 35 years before I was forced out by my ex because she knew I had had sex with men. I told myself I wasn't gay for many many years, then moved into a "I'm bi" phase, but now know I am 100% gay. It's amazing what we can make ourselves belief in order to cling to the life we know. I'm not saying you aren't bi, just that I'm not. I wanted to touch on a few of the things you mentioned in your post. This is really too bad. I encourage you to find the strength to cut down on the drinking as a coping mechanism. Your children need a loving father. Try to spend some quality time with them. It'll hopfully help take your mind off your troubles for short periods of time. They only have one childhood and deserve a happy one. I think I felt the same way as you at the height of my struggle and as a result I don't have the relationships with my three adult children that I would like. You have time to make it right. I love this statement! It has to be for you. There were many times after my ex found out I had sex with men that she begged me to tell her if I was gay. I denied it at every turn, mainly because of the fear and shame associated with the perceived consequences. Self preservation is a powerfull force! Don't beat yourself up for feeling like a coward, it's a part of it for all of us (in my opinion). This is a definite possibility if you can find a counselor who can help you communicate effectively. It may take a long time, with crazy highs and mind-numbing lows, but if it's a goal you both embrace, it can be done. It can only be done with mutual buy-in. I wish I could help you on how preteen kids will handle this. My kids are 27, 30, and 32. They handled the news pretty well initially but have struggled with knowing about my infidelity. No kid ever wants to know about their parents' sex life but it was much worse when they learned that I had frequently risked both my health and that of their mother. I would advise not letting them know too much early on. Maybe once they get used to the idea that their mother and father will no longer be under one roof (and understanding that it has nothing to do with them - because they may feel that way), and they're a little older, they'll be able to understand all of this. Since my ex kind of pulled me out of the closet, I can't say she really went crazy. That happened three years earlier with she found out about my frequent casual sexual encounters with men. For a long time it was very difficult, but we moved forward. We both found our own counselors and eventually found one to go to together to help us make it work out. Finally our counselor helped us move through the divorce process. It might be good to have some resources available for her when the shit hits the fan, but I think it's important she not feel like you've chosen her counselor. As far as telling family and friends, I was astounded at how much compassion everyone showed both of us. That part wasn't as hard for me as I had feared. Obviously, everyone experiences their own reactions so that's a crap shoot too. The nature of their reactions will in part depend on how you present it to them. I told as many as possible in person and it was without exception very appreciated. I wish you all the best going forward on your journey. It will be hell, I won't sugar coat it, but the only choice once it's done is to move forward and both of you will. (*hug*) 55
Thanks 55, maxx and Tracker57 for your thoughts and help. I've read many of your postings as well as most of those of other married guys on her that have dealt with these issues. What a great resource. As far as my kids go, they are my number one concern and I will always be there for them. I didn't mean to give the impression that my impatience with them has been hurtful. I'm just angry with myself that this is having any sort of affect on how I deal with them. Rather, I feel that dealing with my feelings and unhappiness has been so all consuming that it has greatly reduced by ability to tolerate the normal and daily little stresses we all must endure, and that's not a good thing. I've been taking great notes from all of the posts on here and cannot believe how insightful everyone on here has been, and how similar we all are. I feel certain that my next step on this journey is to come out to two friends that I know will be incredibly supportive. One, who is a woman that was married to a gay man that came out to her, should be a great source of advice, especially from the female perspective. She told me that she really hated her husband for a couple of years but they are now still best friends and act like an old married couple, taking trips together, etc. They did not have any children, so that was not a complicating factor. I will probably talk to her ex-husband at some point too and get his perspective. The other friend is gay and has been with his partner for 20+ years. I've always enjoyed their company and tried not to be too eager in asking them lifestyle questions. I'll be curious to see if I've ever tripped his gaydar. I do know that he has repeatedly told me he's happy he didn't do like so many people and marry a woman and live his life unhappily. So, with this, I'll be taking some safe baby steps. I will also start searching for a good therapist to talks things over with and get some communication tips for talking with my wife. I would appreciate any tips you may have for locating a good LGBT therapist. I will obviously do an internet search for my area, but you may to look somewhere that I don't. One more thing, which I know will elicit strong comments. I mentioned the gay man that I met, who himself is in a long-term, albeit unhappy, same-sex relationship. He and I clicked almost immediately and after the first month of seeing one another, I was finally able to accept that I was in love with a man for the first time. He feels the same about me. I've never felt this way before or felt more complete, which has been significant in helping me confirm who I am and what I must do. We are both very realistic about our situations and both independently have plans to change our current situations to be happy, but are in no way making decisions based on any expectations of, or because of, one another. To the contrary, this has helped us both realize that we deserve to be happy. That's all for now.
It was great to read this post! It sounds like you're taking great stides! As far as a therapist, I think if you contact a large psychological therepy group, they might have an LGBT specialist - especially in a city as large as Atlanta. You might also want to contact someone in your local PFLAG organization, they may have an idea. Otherwise, contacting a local hospital or university may put you on the road to finding someone. Of course, the people you're planning to tell may have excellent suggestions too. If you find someone and they're not someone you feel comfortable with, or is very helpful (and especially if they try to "fix" you), move on to someone else quickly. Most members of EC would never judge you for any actions you've taken to figure yourself out. We're our own judges. Personally, I think that realizing you can love a man on every level is phenominal. For many years, I thought being gay just meant hooking up in bookstores. Now I know differently and I see a very different future for me as I search for someone I can connect with sexually, sensually, emotionally, and spiritually! If only I could find him! All my best, 55
Hi ATLMM I'm really impressed with your grasp of your situation-you have a great amount of clarity. As the guys have suggested, you will make it through this and find life becomes much more fulfilling when you act in accordance with your truth. I know about using alcohol to numb. I reached a point where it became a serious problem and I sought help in AA. If you have reached a point where you would like to do something about it I will be glad to tell you how I did it. Again, welcome and please keep us abreast of what's going on in your life. Nomadic Dave
Re: Coming out to my wife - Update Due to circumstances that are too lengthy to get into here, I felt compelled to come out to my wife. This happened about 16 days ago. She did not handle it well and has repeatedly cycled through all of the typical stages of grief (anger, denial, acceptance, bargaining, etc.). She's not an emotionally strong person. I will say that notwithstanding the initial turmoil, it was such a huge relief for me to get this out in the open. Unforuntately, that initial feeling of "freedom" has since faded for reasons I'll explain below. I had originally planned on seeing a counselor before telling her, but that was not possible. We went to see someone the day after I told her, and then had a follow up visit. That helped some. The interesting thing is how much honesty and communication my disclosure opened up with my wife. That said, I could not admit to her that I had been with men throughout our marriage, so she still is under the impression that my only experience with with a friend as a teen (more on this in a minute). I couldn't tell her for both cowardly reasons and for legal reasons if things do not go well. We ended up switching counselors because the first one was a lesbian and my wife felt she was biased toward me being gay. So, we are now seeing another couples therapist, but have only had one appointment so far. The therapist has agreed to see us individually as well and keep whatever is said in those sessions confidential. I would prefer to go see a gay therapist for the individual issues, but again, my wife thinks he will just try to convince me to "join the club" and be gay. Nevertheless, I am trying to take this seriously. Obviously my wife is not accepting my sexuality. She feels that if I am able to find her sexually attractive, which I do, then I am clearly bi, not gay. Unfortunately, I got the impression, rightly or wrongly, that our new couples therapist also seems to agree with that when I told her I find my wife sexually attractive as well as some other women. I know we all hate labels and nobody falls into one specific category except for those exclusively homosexual, that have no interest or abilty to be with the opposite sex, or those that are exclusively heterosexual. So my wife's stance now is that I need to just make a choice. We've been together 23 years, we have children who will be affected, and we just need to reconnect with each other. As far as my male desires, she's fine with me being attracted to men, but I just don't need to act on them just as I supposedly have all these years. She says that if I leave her and the kids that it will be a selfish move on my part, messing up my kids and her life, while I go live the life I want and they lose the one they had. Clearly she is not saying anything that others on here haven't heard to varying degrees, and I understand they are intended to be threatening and controlling as she tries to hang on to our relationship and her life. This, of course, has caused me to pause and question myself. Do I really "need" a man to man relationship to feel whole, or is it just sex and I merely reinforce these feelings through watching porn and masturbating with the resultant good feelings that are drawing me toward it? The fact that I do find women attractive and am able to have sex with my wife makes this more confusing. That said, I've never really been the sexual aggressor in our relationship, she complains about always having to initiate, and I've made excuses at times to avoid having sex. On the other hand, I started messing around with guys in like fifth grade. I was always interested in guys throughout middle and high school and messed around with three other friends. I continued in college and afterward. I've never really enjoyed random hook ups with guys as I felt shallow and unfulfilled afterward. It got the same pleasure from jerking off to porn. Instead, I would try to find guys that would meet for dinner or at least drinks and conversation to get some sort of connection first, with sex to follow. Most married guys, of course, weren't to keen on this, but I was able to find some. My long-term goal was to find a steady guy to have an actual friendship/connection with, along with sex, but sex wouldn't be the only focus. Given this history and what I've been looking for, it makes me think that I do need to be in a same-sex relationship and I am accurately inerpreting my sexuality. I forgot to mention that if I see a male-female couple walking down the street, I might find both to be sexually attracive, but would totally choose the guy to have sex with. I also never later fantasize about an attractive woman that I've seen, but I do about guys. The feeling of a guy is just so much more electric for me, but maybe that's because guys are generally more sexual to begin with. Anyway, I know that nobody can give me the answer as to who or what I am but these are the issues I'm struggling with. I do not want to wreck my family or lose my children. If we do divorce, my wife will move several states away to be near her family and restart her career despite my assurances that they would be financially taken care of by me. That would mean I would only see the kids once or twice a month when I travel to them. I also worry about how I would be portrayed to the kids by my wife. Yes, I know that I could legally prevent the kids from being moved out of state, but I do not want a contested divorce as that benefits no one. So each day I'm faced with my wife wanting to know if I can honor my prior commitment to her. I tell her I don't know, because the problems with our marriage could stem in whole or in only a small part from my sexuality and lack of fulfillment due to that. I know that if that prevents her or me from being happy and us having a healthy relationship, then for the children's sake it may not work out. She just cannot fathom being a divorced person. So, for now, all we can do is go to counseling and try to make our relationship the best we can so we can deal with whatever happens. My biggest struggle right now though is, should I just suck it up, as a parent, and try to make it work for my children, at least until they are older? Making sacrafices is part of the job of all parents. Sorry for the rambling. I know these are all heavy issues and no one can tell me what's right for me, but I'd sure like to hear how some of you have dealt with it. It's just that the initial freedom I felt with "coming out" has been taken away again because I may not get to be the person that I was intended to be. :help:
atlmm I was happy to see an update. Wish I had time to repy now but I have somewhere to be in a half-hour. I know exactly what you're going through and when I get a chance, I'll send some thoughts - not sure if they'll be helpful, but I just want you to know you have brothers here. 55
Atlmm I understand in a sense what you are going through as I just came out to my wife a week ago. We have been married for 12 yrs and have known each other for 2 yrs prior to that. Together we raise a autistic grandson who is now 10 yrs old. She has been considered disabled since 2002, and I quit my job 4 yrs ago to take care of her and our grandson. I never actually had any same sex relationships before we were married in fact, due to sexual abuse of my grandfather when I was younger, I surpressed myself completely, never imagining that I was gay. So not only did I come out to my wife I came out to myself. Now my step daughter cannot stand me, and has a hard time with me being around my grandson, who calls me papa, and says that he loves being my son. She never took care of him due to the fact that he was a child of rape. So he bonded with us instead. I just told him two days ago, as he caught my wife and I crying together in our bedroom. I told him that we will be getting divorced as I was wrong and that I love his mom *nana* like a good friend and not like a husband should. I could count on one had how many times we have had sex in the last 5 yrs. Which has been extremely unfair to her and I couldn't understand at the time why I was this way. The idea that I may lose her and my grandson is tearing me apart, and I may have to move 10 hours away, to live. I have no friends in this country to talk to or have support as all my time has been to take care of them. I thought at first I too was bi, because well I loved giving her pleasure in the bedroom, though it was always orally not really in any other way. Lots of self loathing on my part. It was about 48 hrs after I told her that I was bi that I realized I was wrong, and that I truly am gay. It sounds like you are gay, not bi. But only you can say for certain. Truth I find no matter how soul wrenching it can be helps with centering yourself. That it will give you the strength to deal with this. Sorry about the ramble, I am pretty new to this as you can tell. I hope and pray it all works out for you. I'll keep watching, and hope I can give you any words of advice.
Re: Coming out to my wife - Update Hi atlmm! Your story parallels mine in many ways, as I came out to my husband a month ago, and have struggled throughout our 15 year relationship (14yr marriage) with issues surrounding my sexuality. I had a relationship with a woman before I met him, that, if I'm honest, I just never got over. So the uncomfortable truth is, he was always a compromise for me, while I was and still am (in a broken way) undoubtedly the love of his life. :icon_sad: The reason I'm posting is that it struck a chord when you said that you seek to conceal your same-sex encounters that you've had throughout the marriage, to spare her feelings as well as for practical reasons. As I said, I told him (under pressure from him to explain my ongoing lack of interest in sex with him) about a month ago that the reason is (deep breath) because I'm a lesbian. He didn't take it well, and for 3 weeks we cycled through the various stages of grief, with anger figuring prominently. I was, however, for similar reasons to the ones you stated, still concealing the fact that I am, in fact, in an intimate relationship with a friend I've known for a long time, and who is known (presumed?) generally to be a lesbian. Unfortunately, as his anger and grief began to subside towards acceptance, he began to think things through more rationally, and suddenly made sense of 'evidence' he'd successfully ignored over the months of my affair, and finally put two and two together. He now feels doubly betrayed, because he thought I had been being honest with him - we've had a meeting with a counsellor too - and all along I was continuing to deceive. I still don't think I could have done things differently (except perhaps to have been stronger in the first place and 'dealt with' the (secretly) unhappy marriage before starting a relationship with someone else), but... that's not what happened. :icon_redf So, ask yourself whether your wife really will NEVER figure out what you've done. If the answer is, well, when she actually becomes more calm and objective about things, she might review 'evidence' over the years / dig around and find fresh evidence, and figure it out, in that case it might be better for you to come clean and deal with the consequences. Also, if you agree to "suck it up" for the sake of her and the kids, the reality is that she'll be twice as much on-the-look-out for indiscretions as she would have been before. Can you succeed in either stopping having same-sex encounters, or keeping them hidden enough...? I relate very much to your feelings as follows: My husband has argued similarly, and I feel terrible. Deep-down we both accept, more or less, that our 13yr old daughter needs me, her mother, so my husband, who on the face of things at least, has done nothing to deserve any of this, stands to lose both me, as well as our home, and a day-to-day relationship with her as well. I can see how selfish this makes me look, but really, there's no easy answer. I'm desperately worried about him at the moment, and only time will tell how we work things out. But, although I feel horribly guilty about the pain and anguish I'm causing him, and I know outsiders, including, possibly, my parents, will see my actions as unforgivably selfish, despite all that, deep down I know I did what I needed to do, and I have made sacrifices and will continue to do so for my children (my older one is 19 and away at university). We all have a duty to ourselves to become what we are destined to be. I hope one day I can show my daughter that being true to myself was the path I needed to take to find happiness (one day!!:icon_wink) I try to hang onto the belief that this is a positive example to set to her, despite the difficulties that lie ahead of my family at the moment. Good luck and best wishes on your own path! Bluebird
Altmm, My heart breaks every time I read posts like this, as well as NDKnight and Bluebird's! I know there's a bottomless pit of men and women who, through circumstances and no intentional fault of their own, end up like us. We all know we're great human beings at the core of our soul, but now deal with being the catalyst for our family's hell on Earth! I lived a closeted life very similar to yours. I felt completely out of control as I hooked up with too many anonymous man to count over the life of my marriage. For awhile, each one ended in guilt ridden torment and fear of discovery. How could I do that to my wife and family - myself? As you say, only you can choose your path, which right now is shrouded in darkness. Sharing here is a great way to shine some light on your next steps. When my ex learned the extent of my sexual activity with men, it was utterly devastating for her. Thoughts of me being sexual with men (and she pressed me for detail - which our counselor said she deserved) and my ability to deceive continue to haunt her - as they now haunt me. My adult children are also aware of my sexual history now and it's the greatest source of stress on my relationship with them too. Even 10 months after coming out to my wife, I still feel the pain daily. Each new step on my own journey is bittersweet. I like the man I'm becoming because I'm the best human I've ever been! I ache for the uncomplicated family life I once enjoyed. I look longingly for the right man to arrive in my life, while fearing the prospect of finding no one. I anticipate the day when my ex finds the man she should have been with all along, although I dread the thought of being replaced in her life. Ironic, given my past. At the same time, I know without a doubt that I did the right thing - both admitting I am gay and coming clean about my sexual past. It was a tremendous soul cleanser. One thing for you to consider is the prospect of invisible STDs. God willing, you've never picked anything up from one of your encounters, but having her find out about your activities based on a visit to a doctor (which is how my ex found out) would be soul-crushing for her because she thought you were being up front and had now realized a new level of deceit. In writing this, I feel like I may have inadvertently given you reasons to lock the closet from the inside and swallow the key. I hope that's not the case. In my own opinion, I believe you need to come clean with your wife and face the consequences. Eventually you will all be in a better place - it'll just take time - a long time. I don't know you, atlmm, but you have my love. We are brothers. 55
