Interesting coming out story; any TG; MtF around to sound off on this?

I'm not transgendered or religious, so I'm not sure what I have to say is worth much, but here's my 2 cents. I think you and your friend are making mistakes in thinking that religion is the domain of the straight and the cisgendered. The belief that God hates anyone for who they are has been manufactured from people's interpretations, there's no way anyone can know for certain. Frankly, if I was religious, I'd prefer to choose to believe that God had made me the way I am for a reason and loved me the way that I am.

As for your friend, again I think that if he believes God made him, then he has to accept all aspects of himself. To say God made him but he rejected part of himself so that he could be the way God wanted him to be makes no sense to me whatsoever, if God made him, God made every part of him and all of it was for a reason, to reject any part of himself is to reject something that was given to him by God.

 

Hmm. I'm going to use "he," because I'm not sure what kind of transgender person your friend is.

But wow, that's really sad! I wish I had something to say, but since I'm an atheist, I just don't. I think it's dangerous for him to think that divine power made him somethings he's not (a cisgender male), and to try and reject that. Really not good for mental health at all...

Many people are able to reconcile their religion with their sexual orientation and/or gender identity, but sometimes for some people it just doesn't work. In those cases, I think they are better served by questioning their faith.

There are ways to be connected to the sublime mystery of the world and be firmly grounded in ethical understanding and compassion without religion. Especially if you believe your religion is against you.

 

Your friend didn't "choose" God over himself. He simply ran away from the responsability of making a choice. It's easier to evade the question than face it.

I know, because I did that for 19 years.

But I assure you something: the time when he will face that choice, will come fo sure, and the more time he spends rejecting himself, "the more hard he will hit the wall".

The only thing you can do is to be there for him when that happens.

 

Hi. I feel compelled to speak here because I can identify pretty heavily with what you're friend is going through, and unfortunately as much as you want to, I'm not sure that there's much more you can do for him then just be there. I've known I was female for an extremely long time, almost as far back as I can actually remember, and I chose to shy away from it and do my best to fit into society. The pressures on me were both religious, given my family, and societal. Because of this I've also struggled with religion and spirituality.

I think Cassandra was onto something with it being more about him running from himself than choosing religion. This is scary stuff, especially in the beginning when you don't really understand any of it, or anything about yourself in that regard. As Pret said, many people are able to come through this and reconcile their orientation/identity with their religion. It's mainly about adjusting your religion to fit you. Over all, God is supposed to be loving. That, more than anything else is the main tenant of Christian Belief. God loves you. It needs to start from there. I know plenty of Christians who believe that there's more than enough room for people like us in God's Kingdom, and don't believe that he hates us, or it's their place to do so either. These Christians are a few of my biggest supporters in fact, and I don't know how I'd do this without them.

You're friend is struggling, and I'm glad to see that you're aware of that. I like the message that you delivered about it being okay, and that there's nothing wrong with him for it. If he is Trans, which sounds like at least a possibility, he will eventually have to face this. It's not something that is going to stay buried. It won't. There's no "might" about this. It will not stay down. Period. It might not come up today, or tomorrow, but it will rear it's head for him again, and the longer he waits, the harder its going to hit and the harder it's going to be to accept and deal with.

There's nothing wrong with nudging him a little, just a gentle tap here or there to bring his true feelings to the surface. It's something he needs to be thinking about and giving thought to if it's real, and even if he doesn't want to talk to you about it, bringing it up every so often will at least have him thinking about it. Speaking from experience, if I'd had somebody in my life gently pushing me when I was younger, somebody who I knew would accept me for it, I probably would have come out with this earlier in life.

The preceding were my thoughts, opinions, and advice. What you do is completely up to you, this has simply been my perspective. I hope it helps some.

 

Geezus…
This seems like tough one, hon.
I totally see where you’re coming from. Coming out as gay to your family is difficult enough… I can’t even begin to imagine how hard it’s gotta be to come out as Trans. Not only that… but the coming in process by itself. Like (I’m just guessing here) feeling awkward behaving as a cysgender/cyssexual person, using the proper cysgender clothing and stuff like that. ‘Cus as gay and tomboy-ish as I am, the closest I’ve gone to cross-dressing is to putting a fake beard made out of bubbles when I’m bathing… I don’t even like wearing clothing that makes my breast look smaller (let alone breast-less) or even baggy pants. If I think about that, how awkward it’s gotta be for Trans people to use the wrong gender’s clothing… Well, at least that’s the impression I’ve gotten from some documentaries… And My Princess Boy.

I’m not so sure about your friend being intellectual (though, I do understand what you mean by using that word) given that religion is founded on faith (lack of evidence).

I have a relatively similar situation as yours.
One of the first people I came out to (and one of my closest friends) is highly religious. My coming out force him to question his own sexual orientation. He was starting to admit that “sometimes he likes boys too”. But since he’s baptized he’s been very judgmental about “homosexualism”... sort of like trying pushing it away from fellow homos, and so, from himself. He doesn’t quite say it, but he implies that it’s wrong, unnatural and blah, blah, blah. It’s so obvious that that’s he’s way of NOT being gay.

It saddens me to see his attempts to try NOT to be gay… It just feels like sheer desperation to fit as a cysgender straight guy. Like the whole "No, I don't want to be gay", you know...

I wouldn’t be surprised if my dude were struggling with guilt and even self loathing … but at the same time I don’t get it. What does he think I think about myself??? ‘Cus I’m cool with being gay… why doesn’t he see that it’s perfectly fine to be gay?? It doesn’t make you abnormal… It just means you’re attracted to same sex.

It's hard for me to understand this, because my friend is very accepting. He's always being pro-gay rights... until he baptized as a way out. Now he's repeating crap (gay = abomination) I'm not quite convinced he believes.

I think you see your friend as I see mine… But it’s just my opinion. And I do agree it’s just sad.

(If you’re bored and feel like reading: http://emptyclosets.com/forum/support-advice/73849-back-closet.html#post1231093 Though honestly I’m not gonna do anything about it. My friend is in Canada at the moment and I don’t want to do this online. I think this is the type of things you gotta do face to face.)

Honestly, I don’t think your friend has reached the same point of acceptance as you… I think he came to acknowledge it, but not definitely not accept it.

Cassandra… Always so wise.
It’s true. It’s easier for your friend to “choose” not to be Trans and embrace it and put himself in the spot line. What can I say?? It’s gotta be tough.

AlexisAnne is totally right. I think no matter what type of LGBTA-Z you are, it WILL catch up sooner or later. There’s just a point where you go: “I am so ____ (insert the appropriate Queer noun)”. If he can’t accept it, then he’s just signing up for a life of unhappiness. Not embracing who he is doesn’t take the Trans away from him.

Honestly I think the only thing you can do, TheSeeker, is just being there for him.
Make it clear that it's fine being Trans... and that YOU, as a bisexual, are fine with your sexual orientation. That it doesn't make you a "freak".

 

Now I'm flattered :icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf:icon_redf