Listening to others' stories and having recently gone through a certain emotional experience have prompted me to share my story with you, should you be interested in hearing it. I will begin with background information. I am currently 18 years old and I have known that I am completely gay for several years now. In this respect I am thankful, to have been able to figure out with such certainty what my sexual orientation was. When I first began to suspect this I was terrified, I went through what I assume is the usual process of denial, and yet some part of me would not let me deceive myself, so I explored and rapidly grew to comprehend my sexuality. However, serious consideration of coming out was still out of the question as I felt very insecure. I realize now that the depression that followed was in no small part due to my remaining in the closet, however I still feel that I could not have forced myself to come out sooner. If there has been a focal point to my life I would say it is/has been a guy/friend whom I will refer to as Joe for the sake of anonymity. I first "met" Joe in the (7th for me, 8th for him) grade and although I did not realize it at the time, I already felt attraction to him. I say "met" because I never actually became acquainted with him, I simply observed him. At the time I thought I was merely interested in him as a person. It was not until years later that I realized how very much in love with him I was/am. Now, I cannot truly say that I am/was in love with him because I think of love as an exchange between two people, and the fact that my feeling has not been returned negates the possibility. Time passed, I went through typical struggles associated with adolescence, I found myself changing schools and homes rather rapidly (my entire family moved back and forth between coasts during highschool for reasons too complicated and irrelevant to enumerate). It was during time spent on the east coast that I began to understand my sexuality. One year, some time after I returned to my original home, I encountered Joe again, and I found myself more attracted to him than I had been to anyone previously. I am not, however, an aggressive person and his removal from my life also removed him from my mind. Joe had decided to go to the coastguard and consequently was absent during my senior year of highschool. At the end of this year I began to hang out with a certain group of friends that I had not associated with for years and we have become very good friends. It just so happened that Joe was also a part of this group that I was unaware of at first. Over the summer I saw him occasionally at parties and my attraction grew; the more I saw of him the more I wanted him. At the same time, however, I was growing increasingly upset and depressed, largely due to the fact that Joe confused me to no end. At times I was completely sure that he was gay, and at others he said heterotypical things that upset me badly. I think of myself as a logical person, and as the anxiety started to become so bad that I feared I would become suicidal I realized that I needed to come out to somebody. The person I chose to come out first to is a female friend of mine that has/had been as deeply in love with me as I have with Joe. I did this for two reasons; one, that I felt she deserved to know why I had been unable to respond to her feelings and confused her with seeming mixed messages; and two, that I knew she would be kind and accepting. I planned coming out to her for a while, but it was not until I once again encountered Joe at a party and started feeling like shit that I did so. When I told her I cried, and she just held me. Since then I have come out to three more(female) friends, and, believe it or not, Joe himself. My friends couldn't believe that I managed to do it, and I could hardly believe it myself, but it was my hope that it would relieve some of the stress I was feeling, and to some extent it did. I refrained from telling him my feelings for him, although I was sure that could guess them. After telling one of my friends I feel as if I discovered my best friend; she and I have talked extensively and found that we think on very similar terms. I now always turn to her when I need to talk about something. I will refer to her as Mary. I apologize for rambling so, for this is still all background information, but I felt it necessary to fully convey the central issue, that being the event that occured only last night. Last night there was another gathering of this group of friends. Two of the friends that I have come out to, after talking for a while, convinced me to come with them to this party. At first I was reluctant, as I feared the night would end as it usually does, with me miserable because I like Joe so much and cannot have him (the key here is that I find myself unable to believe that Joe is heterosexual, despite things that he has told me before that would indicate otherwise). However, I decided that hanging out with these friends would be better than going home and accomplishing nothing, so I agreed to come. I rode with Mary to the house and after I had parked when we arrived we sat in the car for a while to talk. In the middle of this talking I spotted who else but Joe and his best friend(Jordan) walking down the street. I groaned and tried to hide, then left the car and started walking toward the house, but I noticed that Mary had stopped out side the car and was talking to the two of them so I came back and walked up next to her. It was immediately evident that Joe had been drinking and I found his rambling slightly amusing. It seemed he was upset at Jordan for not having believed him in some matter. The words that came next were just part of the string of self defense that rolled from his mouth, but struck me with enormous force. Something like: "...and you told me your secret, and I told Jordan your secret but I never..." The word is Delirium: "A temporary state of mental confusion and fluctuating consciousness resulting from high fever, intoxication, shock, or other causes. It is characterized by anxiety, disorientation, hallucinations, delusions, and incoherent speech." I had not before believed this state to be possible, but it became very real for me that night. I can only be thankful that I had Mary to guide me, because I don't know what I would have done otherwise. I will spare you the details except to say that for the next three hours I was not myself, and spoke whatever came into my mind. At some point Joe came to talk to me. The important exchanges were: he was sorry that he had told Jordan, I told him how much I liked him, he understood how I felt because there was a girl that he used to like but could never have, there were additional people that knew, and that they did not care that I was gay. The whole time I was caught between my affection for Joe and my anger at what he had done. Earlier yesterday I could not ever have guessed that this would happen to me that night. I'm sure some day I will look back and be happy that it happened, as it may have given me a push out of the closet. At this point I'm uncertain as to what I will do, whether I will tell my family now or not. The two things that bother me the most are that Joe took from me the one thing that I thought I controlled, the choice of when/where/to whom I would come out, and that my feelings for him continue unabated despite what he told me. I'm not sure that I can ever believe he is totally straight, or get over him. It may be that I am overreacting because the experience is still so fresh in my mind, in fact I'm certain that I'm still not thinking straight. I'm not asking for pity from anyone, please make of this story what you will. I suppose that I may be looking for advice if any can be given. Once again I aplogize for rambling on so much, if you have reached this point I thank you for taking an interest in my story. -trick
most important words i can give: people here dont just give pity, there's sincere understanding and experiance in the same things you go through. I have one friend, who put me in the same background as you. I was very interested in him last year, and then we became friends. it was really weird meeting him and becoming friend while i liked him, and it was really hard trying to hide that i liked him. Its thanks to him that i understand and accept who i am. it was also him who i came out to first, but of course, i didn't tell him my feelings for him. maybe 20 years from now, lol, who knows anyways, later on, i told my mom. at this time i was especialy afraid of what my step dad would say. not neccesarily homophobic or religous, but definately seemed anti-gay. when i talked to my mom about it, i made it clear that id rather wait for him to know. well,later that week, i guess she told him. now, i know that she is my mom, and that she has a right to talk to him about things because they are married, but it down right scared me that i had no control over whether he knew. hopefully you can find a little control over what others say about you, but this could be the start of getting to know who will accept you, and you might not even need the courage to tell them.
Hi Thank you for your reply =) If it wasn't apparent I was rather dejected when I wrote the original post, but today I spoke with Mary again and she has a way of making me feel better. I still feel very scared and insecure, though =(. I forgot to mention that nearly that entire group of friends has found out that I am gay, so now I don't know what I will say to them the next time we meet. I know that saying nothing and pretending they/I don't know would be a horrible decision, but I'll have to give it some thought. I feel like such a piece of shit whining here, when I am so damn fortunate to have such open and accepting friends, I have just been shaken and it will probably take me a while to continue on. Again thanks a bunch, I felt such horrible anxiety when I saw that someone had responded , but it comforts me that you understand my situation . -trick
just a suggestion. you said that you didnt know what you were going to say next time you meet your friends. from experience, be yourself and somehow make the point that nothing has changed. for example, im more easygoing, smart(statistics are fun, and a smart ass. so going from a line i like to use commonly to start a coversation with a group (one out of five kids are overweight, so who is it? (while all of my friends are underweight)) I'd say something to the effect of "one out of every ten people are supossedly gay, so who is it?" or something like that. you really need to speak normal though, and make it clear that you dont care who you are.
All the advice I would give you has already been given. So perhaps all I should add is that you don't have my pitty, you have my understanding. Also, I want to emphasize the BE YOURSELF advice. It's important that you remain true to yourself. I don't know your friends, but perhaps they will be the ones to start the conversation, And perhaps, if they are really your friends, they will be understanding with you, and will accept you for what you are. About Joe... I'm going through the same. I have a crush on a guy, I know it's not love, not as I think of it anyway. I tried to become friends with him, but I screwed things up (what have I done? post has a complete recolection of how). I actually considered coming out to him, but the fear that he would expose me to that group stopped me. BTW: let us know how it goes... we might be understunding, but we are curious as well (at least me anyway)
So.. Well I know this is going to sound like a really bad idea, but I think I'm replacing my love for Joe with hatred, wow yea that does sound bad. I think that for some reason he is just not the kind of person I can treat like a normal friend, so I have to focus my energy toward him in some way. Well maybe anger is a more appropriate word, I'm angry at him for certain things that he's been dishonest about, and of course for betraying me =(. But at least this way I've been able to continue on somewhat with my life. I did see that group of friends again, but I pretty much didn't interact at all with them because I felt miserable. I'm sure it will be different the next time, it's just Joe I'm worried about, I'm not sure that I can act normally when he's present. I don't think I made this clear before, but I was in despair because Joe had said things that "convinced" me he was straight. And quite honestly I think I'm just being stubborn, but I simply can't bring myself to believe he is. It's something about the way he acts that I've never seen in a straight guy. This causes me much pain in the form of frustration. HOWEVER, I think it's highly likely that my ignorance is getting the better of me, and that there are a wider variety of people than I realize. -trick.
I would try to calm down, put a little perspective on things before going as far as hatred. Hatred only leads to pain (quoting master Yoda). And there is more truth there than the dark side and light side of the force. Hatred is indeed a powerful energy, but it's not good, and it takes more from you than it takes from your target. I would try forgiveness first, but with care. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Being angry at him is an effective way to get over your crush, but you'd be wasting your own energy and a pontentially good friendship for nothing. It's true, he betrayed you. But then, in the long run it might be for the best. And then you'll be sorry you lost him as a friend. Now... try to talk to your friends, try to get their support, to let them know you a little better by knowing this part of you they didn't, and forge a new relationship with the group and with each one. Now, group dynamics are not my specialty, but I've had some experience where my group just dismembered because of two people fighting. It's a long story, and it's not worth it right now, but I'll just say thet two guys who had been friends for over 7 years stopped talking, and with them the group just fell apart. A few would go out with one of them, some other with the other. And they would all take sides... and their friendship, as well as all other friendships in the group were runied. Some of us remained together, but it was never the same.
Hey there! You definitely won't get pity from me... I definitely don't tend to err on the side of being overly sympathetic. :lol: So, I am going to go into total pop psychologist mode and make a bunch of assumptions based on what you've written, so it's quite possible I'll be completely off the mark but you can just pick and choose what you find useful. First off, the way you wrote your initial post in this thread was very formal. Maybe even painfully so. You remind me of me. It seems to me that you might be overthinking stuff. Being logical is great but it doesn't really help (at all) in dealing with how you feel because feelings are irrational and logic is rational and while you can definitely attempt to use logic to figure out feelings, most people use it to remove themselves from them and keep them at bay, and if you are doing this, separating yourself from your feelings because they're really intense, then you are doing yourself a disservice and I can guarantee you won't be able to deal with what's going on inside. What I'm saying is that I've seen a lot of really intelligent people screw themselves up by thinking they can "control" their feelings by assuming their feelings are subject to rational control/boundaries. You mention control a lot. You need to let go of that need, or at least lessen your grip on it. Control is pretty much an illusion that makes us feel comfortable and while there are definitely degrees of having control, ultimately someone could start a nuclear war tomorrow and we could all be dead, or there could be an earthquake or other natural disaster and all the plans we had would go flying out the window. If you focus on trying to control your feelings, you won't get anywhere with them. Basically because by definition in that situation you are treating your feelings as something that are out of control, and that then implicitly renders you powerless against them. That is, you're setting up a situation where you are at war with your feelings and they are the enemy. That is a war you will not win because you are fighting it with yourself. Your feelings ARE you and you are your feelings. They are not these external things you can leash and badger into submission. They are something you have to work with, not against. You talk about your feelings for Joe changing from attraction to hatred and about how angry you are with him. Hatred and anger are secondary, protective reactions to what's really going on with us. If you deconstruct anger, you will find that it always is masking some other emotion, usually hurt, shame, disappointment, sadness, etc. If you, as Goratrix would no doubt likely say, give in to your anger (i.e. the Dark Side :lol: ), you are denying your true feelings on the matter and trapping yourself in a situation that is unresolvable because you're not addressing its root cause. Trust me when I say I know how overpowering anger can be; it's something I've struggled all my life with. The other form of common protective emotion/behaviour we engage in is withdrawing. If you consider how people act in unpleasant situations, you'll find they often do one of two things: they get angry or they withdraw. They act passively (withdrawing) or aggressively (exploding). There is a middle way, and formally shrinks call it "assertiveness." That is, you openly express what you're really feeling in a non-confrontational way. Basically, you delve under either the withdrawal or the anger and you say what's really going on inside, because it's guaranteed it's more than just anger or trying to avoid the issue. It is also the scariest way (at least to me) because revealing our true feelings about something makes us very vulnerable, and we're specifically getting angry or withdrawing because we already feel vulnerable and are trying to protect ourselves. However, you will always feel better after the fact if you can assert yourself and be honest about what you're feeling. And it will probably take years of practice, so don't be hard on yourself. Being hard on ourselves is another thing we do that makes life a lot more difficult than it needs to be. Why? Because we're basically having a reaction to our reactions when we're doing it, and that distracts us from what's really going on. We can ignore how we're feeling because we get too caught up in meta-feeling... and ultimately part of us wants to ignore how we're really feeling because that's where all the pain and confusion is. For example (and I think this relates to your Joe thing), I am often attracted to people who I know are not terribly nice people or who are capable of nasty things. Then I feel bad that I'm attracted to them because they're so awful or so unworthy of my attraction. But I can't really deal with my attraction to them because I'm so caught up in feeling guilty about it. Guilt, in particular, is a very unproductive emotion. So I've gotten to the point where I just accept that my physical attraction to someone or even my thing for "bad boys" is just that: an attraction. It doesn't mean I want to date the person, or think they're a worthwhile human being--it just means I feel chemistry towards them. A friend of mine, who I now can't call Joe because you stole it *grin*, has the same thing, often for the same people. But instead of just accepting his feelings, you can tell he is literally at war with himself over them and he ends up just dismissing them as people, often ignoring them and rolling his eyes at me when I mention that I think the person in question is hot. I don't think dismissing a good chunk of the human race just because you can't handle your attractions to them is a very healthy way to go through life, and I hope one day my friend realises that, because ignoring people is actually hard work and ultimately you are just as in the thrall of the person as you are if you were to admit you find them attractive because it all gets packed into this unpleasant ball of unresolved feelings. So what does this have to do with you? Well, it sounds like you're really hung up on Joe and you need to realise that you being hung up on him is YOUR doing, not his. He is not making you feel the way you do; you are feeling that way yourself. If you want to believe it's him, you are essentially saying he is in control of your emotions and that's patently not true. Of the two of you, you have by far the best chance to change how you feel about him and you can do that by actually admitting what you are feeling about him, which I'm going to assume is hurt/betrayal that he told other people you were gay without your say so and disappointment that he doesn't return your feelings (and probably some disappointment that he didn't live up to your idealised image of him). You cannot control your feelings for him like flicking a light switch but you can choose to deal with them and in the process of dealing with them, you will find they will come under "control." Or rather, you will find you are more or less at peace with them, and they will therefore not make you feel like you are out of control. I always thought I had trouble "letting go" and desperately wanted someone to teach me how. It turns out the trick to letting go is to figure out what you're not dealing with that is keeping you caught up in whatever it is you're not letting go of. Hopefully this insanely-long post will be of some help to you. *smile* Let us know how it goes!
Hah Haha! I just have to laugh here because you ar sooooooo right about EVERYthing. I finally realized that my anger was not directed toward Joe but more toward myself. When I'm around Joe (or another guy that I've recently met) I immediately feel pain inside, which I then attribute to my being attracted to him knowing that "we" will never happen, and thus I get angry at myself for feeling this way. This relates directly to what you said about my deal with control, which further extends into my philosophy on life, and which I have attempted to sort out with my friend Mary. I feel I am in the middle of the process of understanding that I do not have control and am learning to deal with it. Because of this I understand that it also does not help to hate myself for my feelings, but I'm not sure what to do. My main problem is that it has been very emotionally painful to be in the proximity of Joe, can you suggest any specific mental thought process I can use to make myself more comfortable? I can't quite seem to grasp it. [Edit: although rereading what you wrote it would seem that I need to figure this out for myself, argh.] Thank you guys soo much for your responses, you make me feel good inside =) P.S. - On a side note, Mary has just informed me that two friends of hers (one of which I am somewhat acquainted with) have come out to her. She mentioned to them that she had another friend (me) that was gay and they seemed interested to talk to me, but she asked me first if it was ok to tell them exactly who it was. Do you think I should? I don't have any gay friends, but I feel a little insecure about telling anyone that I don't consider a close friend. -trick
Wow... sounds like a neat opportunity to me. You might want to express your concerns to Mary and ask her for her opinion. But having someone to talk to face-to-face can be pretty darn cool.
