LGBT News If a feminist meeting excludes trans people, is it still feminist?

It's not the kind of feminism that's going to make the real social progress imo. For something to work it has to be inclusive and intersectional, and excluding trans people is like excluding people of colour, it will only give the radfems more privilege (which they already have on trans people, on the cis front) the same way former types of feminism benefitted white women expotentially more than woc.

 

Wow,not at all.

 

No, it's a Transphobic Womens Group

 

Any time I hear the word "radical" I immediately associate it with extreme bigotry and stupidity. It's nice to see that kind of peaceful get together though. Tissue paper flowers are fun. My grandma used to make these beautiful rose and flower decorations using plastic spoons. I get side-tracked easily...

Anyway, there's no reason for that kind of behavior. Especially calling people that were sitting in a park making flowers out of tissue paper "extreme terrorists." That actually kind of made me laugh.

 

Sorry, but I really think feminism is really dumb. Humanism is what we need. If you want equality, stop focusing on only one group of people. Equality means everyone!

 

It might help to educate yourself on feminism before making such statements. Excluding the fact that feminism does not just focus on women, there is a reason that equality movements have a focus. If there weren't one or more oppressed groups, there'd be no reason for the movement to exist. Its a bit like campaigning for heterosexual rights when they already have them.

 

Shame on the stupid "womyn" of radfem.

 

This.

Soon enough any feminist group from the second-wave will hopefully be done with. I can't wait until third-wave feminist start coming into the game more prominently.

 

No, it's not, and this can be demonstrated by a simple syllogism:

1) feminism "is a movement to end sexist oppression" (that's bell hooks' definition),
2) to exclude people who are trans* from a gathering on the basis of it being a "women's only space" requires making both a sexist assumption about people in all male bodies and a sexist and cissexist assumption that transgender experience is not real*, and
3) (2) contradicts (1); therefore,
4) excluding trans* people of any gender from a gathering cannot be feminist.

Also, I feel the need to stress in this conversation that "radical feminism" is actually a collection of different feminist theories, and not all of them are trans*-denialist. These sets are not drawn to scale (there are many more liberal feminists than radical feminists), but I think it still helps to visualize not all or even more radical feminists are trans* haters. I consider myself a radical feminist, and I've always stood up for people who are trans* from the beginning of my studies.

Also, my feminism will be intersectional, or it will be bullshit. Required reading. (Except think gender in this context rather than race.)



*: I realize that it is a bit more complicated than trans*-denialist feminists excluding transwomen and DFAB genderqueer folks, but for the purpose of my argument, this is an MtF vs. TERF debate. MtF and FtM people are both treated like shit by TERFs in different ways. MtFs are treated as men who are pretending to be women so as to "infiltrate their spaces," and this often includes accusation of rape by analogy. FtMs are treated as women who are trying to "bargain with and benefit from the patriarchy" by "acting like men to gain the benefits of male privilege, when we should be working to end male privilege." The common threads here are a hatred of masculinity and gender essentialism, neither of which are compatible with intersectional feminism.

 

Exactly. I see so many statements like the one by the OP made in ignorance of the true and original intent of feminism. Feminism is meant to bring both (all) sexes and genders equality in all realms, not to simply boost women above the rest. The focus is the oppression of women, like the Human Rights Campaign in the 50's and 60's focused on people of color.

Agreed. Any group that claims to be forward and feminist, but doesn't include trans*gender people is, excuse me, a load of horseshit. You can't volley for women and then pointedly exclude an entire group of women that struggle even more.

 

I apologize, I was referring to the first person I quoted. And for some reason, it will not allow me to edit the post.

 

Edit has a 15 minute limit.

 

This hatred between Radical Feminists and Trans feminist activists always seems so silly and pointless to me. A power struggle between two groups that have no power to begin with- and if they keep all this fighting against each other up, neither ever will.

But as a male-sexed person it's hard to express an opinion, while I think excluding and discriminating against trans people is wrong, who am I to dictate to women (sorry, 'womyn-born-womyn') about their own experiences and who they have to let in to their own feminist movement?

 

Seeing as feminists during the second wave left a ton of women out.... this really would still be feminism. Again, we just have such a hard time differentiating people so we always put people under one big blanket. Sigh...

 

Sure, it's a "feminism" in the sense that I can't cast them out for disagreeing--that would be pulling a No True Scotsman. I'd prefer to say it's a dying feminism, and it doesn't even represent the dominant sector of radical feminist thought.

You can say that sexist exclusion of trans* people for gender essentialist reasons is feminism, but I don't have to take you seriously.

Just like a person who's for expanding welfare, against war, for gun control and against militarizing the border can call himself a "conservative." Nobody would take him seriously as such.

 

I love how you add a smiley face even after saying something that's actually kind of depressing

 

Feminist institutions that don’t include transwomen make me so fucking angry.

You're supposed to be fighting oppression.
If you become the oppressors, then what is the point of your stance?

 

Quick note: The term humanism is already taken by the religion/philosophical system. Egalitarianism is what you're thinking of.

Nice way of looking at it.