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General News Scientific studies find that atheists are more intelligent than the religious

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Adi, Aug 28, 2013.

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  1. Adi

    Adi
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    A new review of 63 scientific studies stretching back over decades has concluded that religious people are less intelligent than non-believers.

    A piece of University of Rochester analysis, led by Professor Miron Zuckerman, found “a reliable negative relation between intelligence and religiosity” in 53 out of 63 studies.

    Source: Religious people are less intelligent than atheists, according to analysis of scores of scientific studies stretching back over decades - Science - News - The Independent

    Link to study: Sign In

    Link where you can download paper: http://rs898p2.rapidshare.com/cgi-b...9C532C4601164CD588567A34D7E64A1&directstart=1
     
    #1 Adi, Aug 28, 2013
  2. MijSo

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    Expected, really.

    I think religious people who converted to their current religion are, on average, equally intelligent though. The thing is, a lot of religious parents make it a point to force their opinions regarding religion and life issues in general onto their children, which I think causes the children to think less while growing up, and instead adopt ideologies other people have.
     
    #2 MijSo, Aug 28, 2013
  3. Cassindra Starlight

    Cassindra Starlight Guest

    Just remember that this is a general trend, not a hard and fast rule. Einstein was a highly devout Jew.
     
    #3 Cassindra Starlight, Aug 28, 2013
  4. Adi

    Adi
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    #4 Adi, Aug 28, 2013
  5. Stripe101

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    Makes sense really. I mean everyone is smart when it comes to their area of expertise but it still makes sense.

    EDIT: Ugh. The comments.
     
    #5 Stripe101, Aug 28, 2013
  6. Fiddledeedee

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    Studies also find that atheists have worse mental health than religious people. Averages like this aren't very useful.
     
    #6 Fiddledeedee, Aug 28, 2013
  7. Hexagon

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    This is correct. At least you got the religion right, though. My father was convinced he was a devout christian for many years, despite my efforts.
     
    #7 Hexagon, Aug 28, 2013
  8. Jinkies

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    Those comments make me want to tear my hair out... But then I'd look like a guy.

    Anyway, okay. "Prove science is accurate" Okay.

    You're on a computer which requires electricity. Electrons moving through a conductor in a circuit. Now cut a cord. OOPS! Your computer just shut off, didn't it? That's what happens when you have a computer with no electricity. It doesn't work.

    Another example? Typing.

    Try typing without using your fingers as a force to drive them to their censors. Just leave the keys alone. Hands off. Nothing's coming on screen? Good. That means science works, and it means you've stopped posting bullshit.
     
    #8 Jinkies, Aug 28, 2013
  9. qwr42

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    I consider myself a rather intelligent individual, i also believe in intelligent design.

    The problem i see is that my God likes to work in scientifically explainable situations. But when we try to examine the world (as He wants us to do) most people will go, "God just makes it happen." which is annoying. i suppose, also, that people who aren't as intelligent (not patronizing, im pretty dumb too) will more easily follow by blind faith.

    Also, the science community doesnt always like the idea of an omnipotent deity. even though i believe in one it seems rather far fetched to me too.
     
    #9 qwr42, Aug 28, 2013
  10. Chip

    Chip
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    OK, I'm going to say this again, and I feel like I have to say it any time there's any sort of thread involving religiion and atheism.

    If we can discuss and debate this topic respectfully, without viewpoints that are hurtful or disrespectful to the viewpoints of others, then it's a perfectly fine (and even interesting) discussion to have.

    But if we have theists starting to tell atheists they're full of shit and going to hell, or atheists telling theists they're stupid... then it will become one of a bazilion other threads we've had to close.

    Now here's my take on it:

    I have always suspected that many (though certainly not all) people who are religious tend to be more rigid in their thought patterns, less flexible in their willingness to change their viewpoints, and focused much more on stability of beliefs (and other patterns in their lives) than are people who are either atheist, or less dogmatic and strict in their spiritual religious beliefs.

    One of the interesting places to look at this is at the extremes: you find a few priests who were Satan worshipers who've suddenly switched to hellfire and brimstone Christianity, and you have people like Fred Phelps (westboro baptist), who are incapable of carrying on an intelligent conversation and actually examining and questioning their own beliefs and faith. Perhaps those who switch, or hold strongly, are people who can't critically analyze their own beliefs, and simply have to blindly adopt them without question... which certainly doesn't support the notion of the critical awareness and analysis necessary to intelligence.

    So it makes perfect sense that someone who can't or doesn't use critical awareness and critical thinking skills in what drives their life and spirituality probably isn't going to be very good at any sort of other critical thinking/awareness/analysis skills, which is a pretty basic cornerstone of intelligence, at least according to how we've measured it thus far.

    Further, if you look at Jonathan Haidt's work on brain differences between liberals and conservatives:
    [youtube]vs41JrnGaxc[/youtube]
    he actually provides not only a potential biological explanation for those differences, but a reason why both viewpoints are necessary for a stable society.

    Now... there's also a big difference between "religious" and "spiritual." In the US, according to some study I read (sorry, can't remember the citation), there are more people who classify as "spiritual and not religious" than there are people who classify as "religious." And the "spiritual" category (according to the study) implied a belief in something greater than ourselves, but was more of an individual understanding developed over time and more likely to involve self-awareness and questioning of one's faith, which are tools of critical awareness and analysis, and, therefore, predictors of intelligence.

    Separate from that, there is a fair amount of data out there that correlates some sort of spiritual belief to happiness. The best documentation I'm aware of is Brené Brown's work on wholehearted living, which is an ongoing research project, now about 13 years, and includes analysis of interviews and data collection from some 13,000 people. Her data shows pretty conclusively that some sort of spiritual practice/belief is pretty much necessary to wholehearted living.

    Without muddling the playing field, the point I'm making is, if we are talking about spiritual beliefs of some sort, as opposed to only organized, rigid religion and its adherents, I think we can have our cake and eat it too: I think there are plenty of people who have some sort of spiritual beliefs, but also have excellent critical awareness and analysis, the ability to synthesize data from other data, and those are all predictors of high intelligence. I also believe that people without spiritual beliefs are more likely to have critical awareness, analytical skills, data synthesis, and other predictors of high intelligence. But most likely, those with the most rigid religious beliefs lack the critical analysis skills that would be correlated with high intelligence.

    I do tend to believe the data and research indicating that some sort of spiritual belief is highly correlated with lower rates of depression and higher levels of happiness, and so, all things being equal, looking at the data, it makes sense that those who have intelligence and some sort of spiritual beliefs may, on the whole, be happier than those without spiritual beliefs, so perhaps what we're really seeing is some sort of tradeoff between intelligence, logical thinking, religious belief, and happiness.​
     
    #10 Chip, Aug 28, 2013
  11. Linthras

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    I think a more accurate way to put it is that intelligent people tend to be atheists rather than theists.
    Other than that Chip's post provides ample reasons for this trend. About spirituality vs religion, the main difference imo, is that spirituality most often is a purely passive belief, wheras religion requires living your lives according to your beliefs which often include rituals, laws and condemnations.
     
    #11 Linthras, Aug 28, 2013
  12. Ridiculous

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    Jew isn't really a religion - Judaism is the religion. Einstein was a Jew but he wasn't a Judaist. (Is Judaist a word?)
    Conflating the two together is like saying all British people are Christians.
     
    #12 Ridiculous, Aug 28, 2013
  13. Jinkies

    Jinkies
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    The grammar was correct. Hexagon was comparing it to his father constantly saying Einstein was Christian, which wasn't correct at all.
    Einstein was raised as a Jew, therefore he practiced Judaism.
    As opposed to Hexagon's father saying "Einstein was raised Christian, therefore Einstein practiced Christianity."
     
    #13 Jinkies, Aug 28, 2013
  14. Stripe101

    Stripe101
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    That doesn't make any sense. I was raised Christian but I'm not Christian now. People can change religion.
     
    #14 Stripe101, Aug 28, 2013
  15. Jinkies

    Jinkies
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    *sigh* I wasn't saying Einstein didn't change religion. I said this:

    Einstein was raised Jewish. This is true. That means during that time, he was practicing Judaism.

    Hexagon was comparing that statement to his father, who kept saying "Einstein was raised Christian, so during that time he was practicing Christianity" which wasn't true at all.

    Point being that when Hexagon was saying "At least you got the religion right" he was referring to Judaism in general. That means all terms that are associated with it.
     
    #15 Jinkies, Aug 28, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
  16. Rakkaus

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    Einstein never really had religion in the first place. He was raised by secular parents and he explicitly rejected religion by the time he had concluded his childhood. So I don't think there's any basis to claim that Einstein practiced Judaism.
     
    #16 Rakkaus, Aug 28, 2013
  17. Jinkies

    Jinkies
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    My main point is that Hexagon was referring to Judaism as a whole. Secular or non, Judaism was still practiced to a degree in the Einstein household, rather than what Hexagon's father said: "Christianity was practiced to a degree in the Einstein household".
     
    #17 Jinkies, Aug 28, 2013
  18. blueberrymuffin

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    Well, religious fundamentalism itself will likely soon be classified a mental illness. Religious fundamentalism could soon be treated as mental illness


    I thought this intelligence comparison was a foregone conclusion, after that study on how atheists know more than theists about *religion* of all things. Theists live longer on average is about all i can say for them.
     
    #18 blueberrymuffin, Aug 28, 2013
  19. Beware Of You

    Beware Of You
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    When you see the likes of Anjem Choudary, Pat Robertson and Bryan Fisher its not at all surprising
     
    #19 Beware Of You, Aug 28, 2013
  20. 2112

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    wow...:roflmao:
    :lol:
     
    #20 2112, Aug 28, 2013
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