LGBT News Wikipedia decides Chelsea Manning will remain 'Bradley' for now

Not knowing much about Wikipedia's ins and outs, I was going to say that I don't understand the problem leaving it as Bradley because it legally is Bradley. However, since they claim that isn't a factor, I'm much more "blehh" about it. I think it's a very slippery slope. They are definitely making it hard on themselves here.

 

Erm... isn't someone searching for another name for someone why Redirects exist? They already redirect Chelsea to Bradley.

But the article uses Chelsea, except the title. I don't get it.

 

perhaps I am insensitive to Transgender issues but I don't see this as hateful or trans phobic.

 

Well in the case of the list name, an encyclopedia will try to use the name by which something or someone is most familiar. (For example, they will list someone under a nickname rather than their full name, if that's what they are commonly known as). "Bradley Manning" became pretty much a household name over the past 3 years, I have several "Free Bradley Manning" signs myself, so you'd want people to still be able to google "Bradley Manning" to find out what that is in reference to.

Though I don't see why it would be a problem to just re-direct people who search for "Bradley Manning" to the "Chelsea Manning" article. There are many people who have gone by different names and they all re-direct to the same Wiki article.

Right now the article seems like a mess, since it can't decide whether its referring to Bradley or Chelsea.

In the case of the pronouns, I think that highlights a fundamental flaw of language, always a mess. I still don't understand why we need gender-specific pronouns in the first place. Why is gender even relevant there, it's like having different pronouns for people based on their race.

 

Because they're handy. I'd much rather be called him/he/etc rather than something gender neutral. My gender isn't neutral, ergo, I want masculine pronouns. Using gender neural pronouns on me is a very, very good way to tick me off.

 

How are they handy? They make things more complicated, not less. If someone has an androgynous look, you have about a 50/50 chance of offending someone if you pick the wrong pronoun, unless you decide to flat-out offend them by just asking them "are you a boy or a girl?"...which shouldn't even matter anyway. There's no reason pronouns need to classified by gender, and not everyone fits neatly into a "he" or "she" binary anyway.

And it makes things difficult in cases like this encyclopedia article, since much of Manning's story took place as someone male-identified named person Bradley ("he"), but now Manning is a female-identified person named Chelsea ("she"). Whether Manning was a he or she is irrelevant to his actions and story. If we want society to stop stereotyping and enforcing gender norms that suppress individuals' natural gender expressions, we should stop putting so much emphasis on gender in cases where it really doesn't have pertinence.

 

Its a nickname for now, and it isnt her legal name, but it really should be changed.

 

Because all androgynous looking people are going to get offended if someone uses the wrong pronouns. /sarcasm

 

And if you use a gender neutral pronoun, you have a 90/99-10/1% chance of pissing off the person you are talking to.

 

Not all androgynous people are androgynous out of choice: not all choose to embrace their androgyny, or are even self-aware about it.

I like to go for an androgynous look at times, when someone takes me for a she instead of a he I just smile...but there are a lot of mannish women and feminine men out there who will get offended if you use the wrong gendered pronoun.

English doesn't have a gender neutral pronoun in standard use, so I'm not sure what you are basing the outcome of this strictly hypothetical scenario upon. People are used to "he" and "she", but if a gender-neutral pronoun became widely used and accepted, I don't foresee any issues, except among those fanatics who think gender is all-important. (Like Christians who think female-gendered people must be subservient to their male-gendered husbands).

 

Ugh, I really wish another person would have been the catalyst for talking about trans issues. I really don't like Chelsea Manning...

 

Why not?

 

Or those of us who can't stand gender neutral pronouns. I've had bad experiences with people who insist on their usage to the point I pretty much just end up rolling my eyes.

 

For a celebrity, their name is like a brand. As insensitive as Wikipedia is being to Chelsea's wishes, in a way, they're trying to make sure she is still recognized as the same person. It seems like, as long as they changed the actual content of the article, it's acceptable to leave the heading, at least while everyone's adjusting to her new identity.

There are a lot of ignorant people in the world, who wouldn't make the connection between Bradley Manning and the random girl's name that popped up when they googled Bradley. This way they'll still read the wikipedia entry, and maybe even end up with more of an understanding about the meaning of transgender.

 

Am I the only one who finds this whole "Chelsea" thing a bit fishy? I mean he/she came out about it the instant Manning was convicted. I'm a bit suspicious that it's just for attention and to keep his/her name in the news.

 

I also think the timing as far as this being a news story was intentional. But she came out way way back in 2009 or 2010. Back then her name was "Breanna". The only new detail is her new name.

What really disappoints me is, we're starting to get more representation. And it's a step up from the way we're usually represented in the media, as hookers and porn stars. But really with this trial and "Orange is the New Black", as incredibly awesome as that show is and as good a job they did with her character, I just hate that the most famous trans people right now are criminals.

I mean imagine how much it sucks to be both trans AND working in computer security right now.

 

Sophia is a character on Orange is the New Black. The actress is the one getting the attention, and she is not a criminal.

There's also Unique on Glee, though not portrayed by someone who is transgender, he still does a decent job.

And there was Adam on Degrassi, for the teen front. But he's not there anymore. And again, while not portrayed by someone who is transgender, she pulled it off pretty well.

 

The article should be headed "Chelsea Manning". Bradley Manning can redirect there. It's as simple as that.