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LGBT News California anti-trans* rights referendum may not be on ballot

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by RainbowMan, Dec 1, 2013.

  1. RainbowMan

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    Original article

    Apparently there's a ballot initiative in California where opponents are trying to strike down a law which give trans* students rights to use the facilities of the gender that they identify with (first I've heard of this, but I'm all the way on the other side of the country).

    Advancement of trans* rights is a completely awesome thing. What got me about the article was that opponents said that people might "pose" as trans* in order to use the facilities of the opposite gender. Does this leave anyone else scratching their head going "huh?". And reading it again, no female would EVER pose at FtM trans to access a male restroom, right? :bang:

     
  2. Valkyrimon

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    Fuck NOM. Fuck the bigots. They don't understand. They don't get it. Hope they burn in the hell they so vehemently believe in.
     
  3. AwesomGaytheist

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    I saw their video where this 11 year old girl was bitching about a transgirl using the bathroom and the little girl and her mother referred to the transperson as He and Him. What about that tolerance you always talk about?
     
  4. Valkyrimon

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    They were actors I believe. I may be wrong, but I think it was meant to be a hypothetical scare campaign, but of course, they deliberately didn't mention that in the ad.
     
  5. Mzansi

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    I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject,
    But frankly I don't think it'd be fair to now allow people into restrooms when they haven't go the right 'junk',
    I mean once you've transitioned? Sure

    Because then once you're allowing people who are just "mentally" a certain gender,
    Into restrooms of the gender they identify with,
    Couldn't anyone just claim to be Trans*?

    I don't know but I feel this law should be mulled on(It should discriminate or dehumanize people, but it must respect the reasoning for separate amenities at this stage)
     
  6. RainbowMan

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    To me, it doesn't matter what "junk" you've got - so you're saying that you MUST have bottom surgery in order to use the facilities of your gender? I'll admit to being a cis-male here and not precisely understanding 100% the trans* experience, but to me, that flies in the face of everything that trans* people have been fighting for.

    As for "anyone" being able to claim that they are trans*, sure that's a risk. However, I wouldn't do my hair like a girl, show up dressed like a girl, etc just so I could use the women's room! I think there's something unwritten here that you need to present as the gender you identify as. That's just common sense, not that you need to have some surgery in order to qualify.

    It strikes me to be incredibly wrong and discriminatory against trans* people. Some people might not be able to afford it, there are significant risks that some aren't willing to take, etc - so that entire class of people must use the restrooms of the opposite gender? Such a move would only contribute to their dysphoria!
     
  7. An Gentleman

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    It would be more practical to remove gender restrictions for bathrooms entirely.
    Most people do not choose the bathroom to creep on people, because a) you'd have to climb around a small space and b) pornography is a lot easier to find than a sufficiently attractive real person.
    And most people only have a nebulous knowledge of trans people (about as much as knowledge as the average Swede has about the history of Korea), anyways- it's unlikely that they'd try to pretend to be trans.
    Besides, the social stigma is probably enough to make them stop. :lol:
     
  8. Ruthven

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    Yeah, totally true, shit's expensive and also doesn't satisfy everyone's preferred end results. and also some of us are fine with our parts (like I'm fine with mine and it's male to me anyway cause I'm a dude so why the hell would I change that?).

    Definitely. It would help in stopping the general segregation of genders for one thing I believe.
     
    #8 Ruthven, Dec 1, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
  9. Valkyrimon

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    Except they need to be declared trans by a therapist and such before they can start attending school as their correct gender and use the appropriate facilities. It'd be a sad day when people would have to shell out £10,000 for an operation just to use the right bathroom. Except in some places that's the law... California is giving trans* people the opportunity to have some of the rights that cis people are born with.
     
  10. GreenSkies

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    Given the stigma of going to a bathroom when you don't appear to belong...why would anyone fake it?
     
  11. GeeLee

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    Somehow I don't think you're going to get a lot of perverts going through all that just to get a look in the mens/ladies room. That's assuming they can convince a therapist that they're trans too.
     
  12. BryanM

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    I would think the school could be able to tell the difference between those who actually identify as a gender and those assholes who are like "lol watch me say I'm a girl and get into the girl's room lol".

    Actually the way this law is written, it is a very nice piece of anti-discrimination legislation.
     
  13. Mzansi

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    I would think the school could be able to tell the difference between those who actually identify as a gender and those assholes who are like "lol watch me say I'm a girl and get into the girl's room lol".

    Actually the way this law is written, it is a very nice piece of anti-discrimination legislation.[/QUOTE]

    First thing I have to do,
    Is correct my wording to *Shouldn't[That could've turned sour really quickly]

    @Rainbow man,
    Although it's true that most people wouldn't take advantage of such legislation,
    There will always be exceptions to the rule,
    And just because you may adhere to that written 'rule',
    Doesn't mean others will.

    And I don't feel this is as discriminatory to Trans* people,
    As it's following the basis on which bathrooms are modeled on,
    They cater for specific genitalia[Such as urinals for men],
    Not to gender itself,
    Therefore it's sex based,
    Which is essentially why I raise issue with this I guess.

    @An Gentleman,
    I'd see it as more fitting to remove ALL gender restrictions then,
    So essentially I agree with you on that part,
    But until that happens,
    I do feel bathrooms cater to sex rather than gender,
    And therefore should be utilized as such!

    @Danica,
    I guess that could work where it'd need to be sanctioned by a therapist,
    But I feel bathrooms are sculpted to fit needs based on sex,
    Rather than gender,
    So I'd need to see how this plays out in the end I guess :slight_smile:

    And furthermore,
    Schools aren't always good at netting those bad eggs,
    As proven numerous times through cases of bullying,
    Abuse of the system and so forth.
     
  14. Valkyrimon

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    Alright then. Let me just go into the men's bathroom dressed as a girl for now and see how long it takes me to die.

    Seriously, the biggest problem I have with that is that it isn't safe for a transgender woman to go into the men's bathroom, regardless of genitalia. There are many stories of trans* people of all walks coming into medical difficulties as they don't use public bathrooms out of fear. Arguing that bathrooms should be sex based rather than gender based is illogical, as no one is really going to know anyway. You don't see other people's genitalia when you go to the bathroom, so why does it really matter? The whole bathroom debate is just a pain in the neck, but I just know its going to be debated to hell and back so many times before we can nip it in the bud.
     
  15. Just Jess

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    Mzansi,

    I understand where you are coming from. I do want you to understand though that the men's room is not really designed for me. There are roughly half the number of stalls I can use... I don't want to gross anyone out, but there's often pee on them. Boy's bathrooms also have a definite smell to them that girl's bathrooms don't have. It is difficult in ways I can't easily explain listening to someone that is obviously a man peeing a few feet away from you. I am also usually wearing a gaffe and panties, and while I've learned a long time ago how to keep these things hidden from view whenever I TCOB - since other trans people are probably reading this, I push my underwear into my pants and then re-button them before pulling them down - it still makes being the only girl in the boy's bathroom a very uncomfortable experience.

    I do understand that women need a safe place away from men. I understand this firsthand. My girlfriend and I are both thankful we don't have to share a bathroom with our roommate.

    But please understand that the way things are right now, when I am in public, I just plain do not have a bathroom I can use. It would be a million times easier for me if I could just use the girl's bathroom. Just sit down, take care of business, and leave. The only reason I don't is that right now, even though both bathrooms are the "wrong" bathroom for me in a way, men are probably going to be nicer to me if I pee as a guest in their bathroom.

    Physically speaking even, it is just plain easier. Even if I could bring myself to use a urinal at this point, I have been tucking long enough that whenever I try, not to get gross but it doesn't work as well as it used to and I would end up peeing on myself a little. Stuff down there doesn't look the way it does for a normal boy any more. "The darn thing" is the same size as it always was, but flaccid it's way smaller, and the "t-factories" are smaller and tucked up inside now. If I was a cis male it would be embarrassing but it's honestly a relief to me.

    I don't plan on getting all the bottom surgeries, because I don't have that kind of money. And because the biggest reason I'm transitioning, my hormones feel very wrong, would be taken care of with a far cheaper surgery.

    I'd also like you to consider that even though where you draw the line is bottom surgery, that is not where other people draw the line. Some people will never consider me a woman because I have different chromosomes from most women. Some other people would use "presenting as a girl" as a standard, but some people have an easier time passing than others, and you open up the door for "this person doesn't look girly enough". And the problem with that, is that "girly" basically means "attractive" in that sentence, and you open up the door for cis women not being allowed to use the bathroom.

    It is a complicated debate, and I respect you for being the "devil's advocate" and taking an unpopular position. I would just like to ask you to consider some of the things I said before you make up your mind about what's right.
     
  16. Revan

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    Never heard of guys wanting to go into a woman's bathroom unless they identify as trans. Guys tend to be rather particular about washrooms and try and avoid womens bathroom cause they'll be seen as women. Stupid sure but the people who think people will post as trans is ridiculous.
     
  17. Spitfire71

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    The way some people talk, I wonder if there's like a secret cabal of bathroom molesters meeting in a secluded area of an area, with binoculars fixated on the restroom doors.
     


  18. whole thing is idiotic, I am pretty femme, never have a problem walking in a restroom right?

    shouldn't they have a bigger problem with me being there? I mean more trans womyn like men right?

    if anyone is going to be watching it is me?

    and who goes in a restroom for that anyway - I am there to do one thing - relieve myself

     
  19. Mzansi

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    Thank you very much for writing this!
    I have gained new perspective on a matter I admittedly did not have much insight into!
    Thank you for taking the time to respond to me in a kind,
    And non-angry way!

    You've given me a lot to think about,
    Truly appreciated :slight_smile: