LGBT News Ken Cole, Why assimilation is WRONG for Queers

Not seeing the link with assimilation here. All I'm seeing here is some guy trying to get credits for himself and a small bunch of other folks through misinformation, but I absolutely fail to see how that relates to assimilation.

 

I fail to see how this is an issue of ”assimilation."

All I read was a sad man taking credit for something he solely wasn't responsible for and making an ass of himself.

Deplorable, yes. Sign that we shouldn't "assimilate," I think not.

 

Listen here, I don't need you patronizing me indirectly by saying stuff like "Another problem with assimilation--it only connects the dots that maintain the oppressive order--invisible within the illusionary bubble of special privilege" and making some connection between this assine story and "assimilation," that is completely subjective.

If you got a problem with how I live my life because I've "assimilated" or whatever by "forgetting" stuff like the Stonewall riots, the concentration camps and how not only the jews were killed, but Romani, Homosexuals, etc. were killed, how homosexuality was further stigmatized by ignorance on HIV, among countless other events, frankly I think you just need to shove it.

I'm not ignorant, I know how much people sacrificed. I would think that they'd be proud that I'm living the life that I am, and not running off to the edge of society. The only thing that makes me different from "mainstream" society is the fact that I fancy men. I am living life how I wish to. I don't need you, or anybody else trying to pressure me into doing anything. I'm forging my own path, I'm not going to let anything stop me from being who I am, and I'm not going to have somebody try and guilt me into living a certain way.

This story is nothing more than a man pathetically taking credit for something that he alone did not work on by himself. How you get anything about this being about assimilation is beyond me. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this, you're entitled to your own opinion.

 

this has zero to do with assimilation - it is just someone taking credit where credit is not due, happens all the time, egos get int the way

and if you really want to talk about waht was going on then teach the kids about history

the people responsible for really letting everyone know what was going on and getting the nation off its collective butt


ACTUP
The Men and Women Who Started ACT UP -- New York Magazine


How to Survive a Plague - Official Trailer [HD]

How to Survive a Plague - Official Trailer [HD] - YouTube

 

Wouldn't I be also be assimilating if I changed my personality to "act gay"? I never assimilated, nothing changed. I'm just not the "Radical Faerie" type. I don't want to be treated any differently than anyone else because I'm not any different.

 

The whole point of the movement is to be part of mainstream culture in someway, you know gaining social acceptence. With this we will be able to be as "normal" or "weird" as we like. Some people (not me) really do blend in with the majority and are being perfectly honest with themselves...sorry I just don't like others telling someone that they are living some sort of lie when they are not. Everyone has a right to live their life how they decide to.

Also age does not factor into wisdom.

 

This is just sad. You can't be bothered to read the entirety of my post, yet you say that I'm delusional, don't know my history, and basically told me to grow up.

Techno Kid already stated it, but the whole point of our movement is to have equal rights. Not everybody is going to blend in to social norms, it doesn't even mean if your gay if you don't, that's something that anybody can face. Everybody deviates from the norm in some way, there's no use in trying to be normal. All we ask is what we deserve, equal rights.

You can say I live in a delusion all you want, but I'm not going to let some arrogant old man tell me how I should live and tell me I should learn a thing or two. Yes I'm still going through life, yeah, I'm younger than you are, but I'm not ignorant of the world around me. Like I said previously, I think I would do people proud by living the way I want, and not conforming to anybody's ideas on how to live.

I'm not here to impress anybody, namely people that dismisses what somebody has to say so easily when they dismiss other people just trying to live happily in their own way.

 

DesertTortoise, do you have anywhere your beliefs and philosophy are set down simply and logically for others to easily understand? I've read a fair few of your posts and, to be blunt, don't think I agree with much that you say but it would be easier to evaluate if there was more context for your thinking.

 

Absolutely in the past there was need for fighting back and not necessarily caring to become part of the main culture. Groups like ACT UP in response to nothing being done during AIDS crisis, riots in the face of police brutality and crashing medical meetings when homosexuality was a "mental illness," that all had its time and place.

What are you proposing though for 2014? More riots? Try to end marriage altogether? Segregate from the mainstream completely? That will only set us back. You are fighting against the human instinct to be accepted, because assimilation is the only path to acceptance.

Today's young people have an entirely different set of experiences from 1950s-1990s. Just because they want to, and often are, treated like their hetero counterparts doesn't mean they can't appreciate the historic gay rights movement and how that made equality possible. You just have to acknowledge that not everyone feels different or oppressed just because they're attracted to the same sex.

 

"You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan."

(Hopefully you'll get the song reference)

 

I think the only delusional one is you, no kind of society can be completely devoid of exploitation, murder, greed, and death.

Things are not far worse than generations ago, things have vastly improved. 3 or 4 generations ago, there was no form of acceptance or equality from us. LGBT people were afraid to walk around on the streets for fear of getting beaten up and now today. There are 18 states and quite a few countries where same sex couples can get married. There are also anti descrimination laws in many of these places. Sure some places like Uganda, Russia, and India are still horrible but the world has come a long way towards accepting us since then

And your last comment about how people who want to be accepted as a normal person and be given common decency as a human being are just as much as enemies of us as the homophobes maybe the most ignorant statement I've ever read. It seems like you may have some internalized homophobia as for some reason you can't realize that we are normal people. We aren't some new species or race.

And don't even think about making another comment about how someone like me is too young to see the "truth", just because you may be older than the majority of us, doesn't make you more correct and us less correct in any way shape of form

 

It's a lot better now than it was back then

 

I don't like conflict too much, but it does seem to me that there's a lot a frivolous and empty rhetoric being thrown around... :3

 

First off, in case no ones noticed (although I bet many/most have), the arguments (and I use the term loosely) being presented on the 'anti-assimilation side' pretty much consist of the same 3-5 buzz phrases repeated in different order over and over again. They're not even really arguments, just premises repeatedly recycled. No presenting of evidence, no chain of logic, nothing. When someone raises a point or makes a counter-argument, the response just consists of the same set of buzz phrases in a new (or not so new) combination. Note also that one of the buzz phrases in use is intended to put down or denigrate the person doing the counter-arguing, presumably with the goal of getting them to shut up. There's no attempt to persuade, just a constantly recycling rant mixed with attempts to quash dissent,almost to the point of making threats.

Hint: when a major part of the response to the questioning of an argument is 'how dare you ask that question!?' It's usually a sign that the argument is weak at best, worthless at worst.

As an exercise for the reader, I invite you to consider the arguments used by the various flavors of anti-LGBT groups and people and see if you can identify the same sort of approach to questions or dissent. The lyrics may be different, but the tune is pretty much the same.

In either case, to me it speaks of people who have been stewing in their own bile for far too long. If refusing to accept that kind of approach means I get branded as an enemy, than woo-hoo!! That's a badge I'll be proud to wear.

On a rather different note, kudos to the many folks here who are pushing back against the BS being spewed here. Some solid arguments and good thoughts. Makes me feel rather good about the future if you're examples of the 'younger generation'.

On a final note, I don't see any way that this debate is ever going to go anywhere. No matter what you say, unless you're prepared to hate all of modern society and all straight people you're going to be ignored or put down.

I'd suggest the best way of dealing with this particular pathology is to ignore it and refuse to engage. There are more positive ways to spend EC time in any case.

Todd

 

And pretending to be radically different changes what, exactly? This has nothing to do with assimilation. Most people, gay or not, just want to live normal lives. How does that make us delusional?

 

what are you on about

being homosexual does not make you a separate freaking species - you are human!

dang! and I am Vegan I am even for the equality of ALL sentient life now I can see why you and I are so different I am at the total equality of all sentient being and you want to set YOURSELF up as being the ruler of everything because you are born special