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LGBT News Desmond Tutu Compares Ugandan Anti-Gay Bill To Nazi Germany

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Rakkaus, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Rakkaus

    Rakkaus Guest

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    Desmond Tutu Compares Ugandan Anti-Gay Bill To Nazi Germany - On Top Magazine | Gay news & entertainment

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    The Nazi Germany comparison is always a biggie, but in this case, considering both the source and the subject matter, I think it was justified. (You don't get to "Godwin" Desmond Tutu!)

    The proposed legislation would make Uganda a police state as oppressive toward gays as Nazi Germany was toward Jews and other groups deemed 'inferior', or apartheid South Africa and its treatment of black people. It would grant official state sanction to already widespread hatred and violence against LGBTQ people in Uganda.
     
  2. Argentwing

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    Is it considered Godwin's Law if the comparison is accurate and justified?
     
  3. Rakkaus

    Rakkaus Guest

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    Godwin's Law is actually completely misunderstood. It's a law of probability stating that the longer an online discussion goes on for, the greater the chance of a comparison to Nazis or Hitler, the odds slowly approaching 100%.

    Somewhere along the line some idiots got the idea that any comparison to Nazis or Hitler, however accurate, valid, or legitimate, can automatically be dismissed off-hand merely by saying the word "Godwin".

    But that's not what Godwin's Law means at all, so the dunces who say "Godwin" and thus say they 'won' the thread debate are actually the biggest losers.

    Godwin's Law does not apply at all to Archbishop Desmond Tutu releasing a public statement that happens to compare the proposed Ugandan legislation to Nazi Germany.
     
  4. BryanM

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    Would I be going too far if I were to say Desmond Tutu is a human rights hero? This man says it like it is.
     
  5. Au.Quicksilver

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    I think it's a good point. Instead there isn't a 'KILL THE JEWS' thing as well as a 'KILL ANYONE WHO ISN'T STRAIGHT AND CISGENDERED'. And it's toned down to a life sentence of prison. I'd rather go with the first if it was painless
     
    #5 Au.Quicksilver, Feb 23, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  6. Rakkaus

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    Adolf Hitler took power in Germany in January of 1933. Nazi Germany did not start actually KILLING Jews (and other "inferior" peoples) en masse until 1942, after it had already invaded the Soviet Union, Japan had bombed Pearl Harbor, and World War II was in full swing. During that nine-year period, it took a campaign of relentless propaganda and incrementally harsher legislation and actions (The Nuremberg Laws, Kristallnacht, etc.) to eventually prepare the country to carry out full-fledged genocide. The Holocaust did not just happen overnight.

    That's why any attempt by any country to systematically target a minority in any way should be compared directly to Nazism and be opposed vehemently, no matter how minor or "watered down" it might be made to appear, whether it be Russia's law against "promoting non-traditional orientations" or Uganda's "life imprisonment" bill, which I don't consider all that much watered down from the original "kill the gays" bill, as I am sure this legislation, having been signed into law, will lead directly to violence and killing of LGBTQ people in Uganda with state sanction.
     
  7. Sitri

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    Can I call it reductio ad Hitlerum?
     
  8. Beware Of You

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    He is a great man Tutu, he is one of the few Christians who get press coverage who actually treats humanity with love and compassion. I actually ran into a man who became a minister after seeing a speech by Tutu, he convinced me to give it another shot.

    I just wish these hateful Ugandans would learn to love their neighbour
     
  9. resu

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    I think Tutu is more sensitive because he learned first hand how it feels to be oppressed for being who you are.
     
  10. Jinkies

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    No. Because there's a difference between "Hitler liked puppies, you like puppies therefore you are evil" and "Hitler systematically targeted people not of the norm, and you're targeting people not of the norm. Therefore you are evil"
     
  11. Rakkaus

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    Yeah what Museveni and Uganda have done directly parallels the most evil actions taken by Hitler and Nazi Germany. They are doing the same things that made Nazi Germany as evil as it was.

    Anytime someone says "Godwin" or "reductio ad Hitlerum" in response to a valid, accurate, legitimate comparison to Nazi policies, it makes me want to scream! :angry:
     
  12. Argentwing

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    I wasn't trying to say Godwin was the name of a new logical fallacy, just pretty much your point-- it doesn't apply if it is the unadorned truth.

    It is a shame though that people reference the Nazis' philosophies and actions so poorly and frequently that it dilutes how ghastly they actually were. That vein of evil is clearly still around and needs to be called out when it appears.
     
  13. Sitri

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    That was more of a joke than anything, though I am very... reluctant to compare people to Hitler. Got me yelled at by a Jewish friend of mine (whose grandmother was actually in the holocaust). He said something along the lines of "It belittles the deaths of millions by drawing comparison between Hitler's atrocities and acts, that while certainly evil, are nowhere near the magnitude of the factories of death built by that :***:. He may be following a similar path, but until this guy starts incinerating people I won't stand for such ridiculous comparisons." Well, he didn't say exactly that... lot more swear words, also a lot more anger directed at me, but you get the point.
     
  14. Jinkies

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    Right, but you must understand that there's a difference between a strawman or incorrect prediction and Reductio Ad Hitlerum, because the latter suggests that something relatively innocent happened and because Hitler did the same thing, the "innocent" person is now inherently evil.

    Honestly, I think Putin is going closer to the path of the Holocaust, although I hope like hell he isn't. It seems like this is going to be more of a repeat of the Salem Witch trials, but on a far larger scale.
     
  15. Rakkaus

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    Read my above post. Adolf Hitler took power in January 1933. Those factories of death weren't running until 1942. There was plenty of nasty shit that went on in Nazi Germany before the actual Holocaust that justifies legitimate comparison to Nazi Germany to recent laws passed in Uganda, Nigeria, Russia, etc. One act of persecution leads to another harsher act of persecution, and so on.
     
  16. Ettina

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    How would he feel about comparing Stalin to Hitler? Because in terms of causing deaths of innocent people, Stalin was even worse.