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General News European Parliamentary Elections

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by PatrickUK, Apr 24, 2014.

  1. PatrickUK

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    This might not mean much to members outside of Europe, but.. it's the elections to the European Parliament next month across the EU (actually, does this mean anything to members in Europe?)

    If you live in the EU has this 'event' actually registered on the news/media radar in your country yet? In the UK, I've only seen an election broadcast by UKIP, but Europe is their obsession anyway, so hardly surprising.

    When so many laws are determined at European level (something I'm quite relaxed about personally) should this be of more importance than a General Election?

    Anyway, if you are interested, here's a link:
    European elections 2014
     
  2. Iamqm

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    Hey, I'm glad you mentioned it. Although I don't live in the EU (but in Europe) I'm a little worried about it. I've recently been to Poland where it isn't really mentioned at all. I saw one poster and a tiny ad in a local newspaper... That's it. It shouldn't be more important than a general (national) election but at as important as one.
     
  3. BookDragon

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    Thing is, while the EU might be good for us in a lot of ways there are a lot of things coming out of it that are not acceptable, or at least there are if the people I know who pay attention to these things are to be believed.

    I mean the public are already pissed off at national politicians for various abuses of station and think they are just trying to make their own lives better at the expense of everyone else, and the EU politicians seem to be far more extravagant.

    If they pointed out that we should pay attention to Europe then you would have far more people exposed to the kind of things my Eurosceptic friends keep bombarding me with (that may or may not be true) and all of a sudden UKIP would be much more popular...
     
  4. King

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    The European elections are a shambles, who even knows the parties in power in the EU parliament? Few people, besides the Commission makes all the decisions anyway.

    11.3 BILLION euros a year the UK pays to an undemocratic bureaucratic organisation that has under mimed the voters of the UK, so if British people don't like decisions being made they can do nothing to stop them.

    We have come to a point where people move to the UK and they get child benefits for their children who live abroad, we have come to a point where a select few people are dictating how Greece should run its economy and we have come to a point where the EU dictates that prisoners should be able to vote.

    Iceland, a country of only a few hundred thousand people, has got critical trade deals with Japan, while the EU with a few hundred million people has been unsuccessful. Australia also recently got a trade deal with Japan, but the EU is too inward looking and has gone from a nice and simple trading area to having a parliament and is dictating to nation states what they should do, despite the cultures, economies and languages being different.

    Hopefully UKIP will win the European elections in the UK, they will definitely be a preference for me (the voting system is a preference 1 2 3 STV closed list voting system).

    GOOD LUCK TEAM FARAGE
     
    #4 King, Apr 24, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
  5. Beware Of You

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    Try moving to Ireland, the adverts for daft politicians are everywhere.

    Not planning to vote if I am honest.



    ---------- Post added 24th Apr 2014 at 02:53 PM ----------

    Really? ?????

    UKIP are crazy, homophobic and well why does a party that is so against to Europe want to go there and claim loads of expenses and the like ?
     
    #5 Beware Of You, Apr 24, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
  6. King

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    The only way to fight the system is to fight it from the inside, like the SNP did.

    I don't quite understand how they are a homophobic party. Apart from a few councillors mouthing off, I have yet to hear any homophobia from UKIP at all. They did oppose gay marriage, but so did many Tory MP's, and also Labour and Liberal MP's also. They have now changed their views about gay marriage altogether.

    Ukip making a U-turn on gay marriage, reveals Nigel Farage | UK | News | Daily Express

    If you watch the Farage vs Clegg EU debate UKIP have lots of sensible ideas, definitely worth watching.
     
  7. Harve

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    UKIP are horrendously dogmatic and while they've pointed out some of flaws the EU have, they've fabricated others and latching onto a whole load of Euromyths to the point where level-headed people have the tendancy to distrust anything to say. They've yet to explain why they think there shouldn't be a Europe united to the extent to which it is now.

    The EU is an incredibly complex organisation built around an incredibly complex continent and we should always be pressuring it to work in the most efficient and sensible way possible. UKIP simply want to demolish the entire thing and refuse to acknowledge the mutual benefits it brings to everyone.

    Oh and Farage is slimy even relative to other politicians. How could anyone trust anything he says when he claims his German wife earns both a 'very modest salary' and a 'high salary' within the space of a minute depending what his agenda is?

    [YOUTUBE]M3onel0qgYY[/YOUTUBE]

    Can you actually name off the top of your head a decision that the EU have made that you don't like? No? That's the problem with having a referendum for an uninformed electorate. It's unbalanced.

    You can read all about the EU's relationship with Japan here. It's actually a very transparent organisation, but of course most eurosceptics would rather confirm their biases by other means rather than scrutinising what the EU have to say for themselves.
     
  8. King

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    1. Free movements of people and goods.
    2. EU foreign aid budget
    3. Increased regulation on the City of London financial institutes
    4. Regulation on the size of vegetables
    5. Attempt to give prisoners rights to vote
    6. The EU's involvement in the Ukraine crisis
    7. EU's attempts to prevent UK government Benefit prevention techniques on immigrants

    Just because people don't agree with you, doesn't mean they are less educated or that they don't know what they are talking about. Actually you could argue the opposite, as they haven't been listening to the Labour/SNP propaganda.

    Also its worth noting that it is hard to scrutinise such an organisation as the EU, because as you just said it is very complex. Unlike the UK government, where you can hold them to account for bad decisions, such action is difficult in the EU scenario.
     
  9. Harve

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    I've also had a look at your figure, and it's completely wrong. The UK made a net contribution of €3.86 billion, which can be calculated to a number half that size depending how exactly you calculate it. Some of the poorest, most needy parts of the UK (Cornwall, most of Wales, Merseyside, South Yorkshire) receive a net benefit due to the cohesion policy. I'd love to see where you got that €11.3 billion from.
     
  10. Beware Of You

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    The SNP never "fought the system" from the inside. There are only a handful of SNP MPs...

    The Scottish Parliament was never "part of the system"

    ---------- Post added 24th Apr 2014 at 03:41 PM ----------

    I was with you until that. As a Scot haven't you realised how uninformed the whole Scottish referendum is at the moment its a shambles from both side! Kinda ironic

    ---------- Post added 24th Apr 2014 at 03:45 PM ----------

    Firstly the Express is a UKIP propaganda paper its worse than the Daily Heil. Secondly Clegg is an idiot I accept that anyone could beat that liar in a debate.

    Also you are missing the rest of that story about same sex marriage..

    Great party not...

    Nigel Farage appears to U-turn again on same-sex marriage · PinkNews.co.uk
     
    #10 Beware Of You, Apr 24, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
  11. imnotreallysure

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    Nor can Iceland - which, although not part of the EU, still has to comply with EU laws and regulations, along with Norway and Switzerland - the difference being that Iceland, Norway and Switzerland have absolutely no say on how these laws are made.

    Norway, Switzerland and Iceland are also members of Schengen and as such have open borders and free movement with EU countries, despite not being members themselves.

    If that is the alternative that UKIP want for the UK - to leave the EU while still being subject to all its laws and regulations, without having any say whatsoever on how they are made - then I'd rather not. The EU isn't perfect, but I'd rather the UK be on the inside, counterbalancing the Franco-German alliance and influencing how laws are made.

    Greece finds itself in the situation it is in because they are a part of a monetary union with a sole central bank based in Frankfurt. Greece also fudged the numbers to get into the Euro in the first place, and has been bailed out more than once by other EU taxpayers - mostly the Germans. Greece was an irresponsible and feckless nation that spent to excess - and has seriously damaged the wider EU economy in the process.

    They can easily walk away and manage their own affairs - but they will not be entitled to any EU money, which is essentially keep them afloat.
     
    #11 imnotreallysure, Apr 24, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
  12. Harve

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    I'm not actually telling you why I disagree with your opinions here, I'm just saying how European democracy has played a role.
    1. This has been a principle of the EU since its conception as the EEC in 1958, before we'd even joined and had a referendum on it.
    2. The EU is the world's largest foreign aid donor. You don't like that. As long as you're not making too many compromises, and given your other points you're definitely not, it's alright, right? Cool.
    3. Nah, this didn't happen. The UK, as well as some other countries such as Luxembourg, Bulgaria and the Czech Republic opposed this, which is why. I do think that it needs more major economies to get involved for this to have a positive effect, ftr.
    4. Hahahaha no. At most, the EU were trying to better class fruit and veg by quality. Here's a guide to more bullshit: BBC NEWS | Europe | Guide to the best euromyths Since then, we've had olive oil and car licence plate flags.
    5. I have a feeling that you might view prison as a means of punishment rather than rehabilitation, which is not how any prison in civilised countries today works. Voting is a human right, and prisoners are humans. We want them to be able to participate once they're released from prison rather than re-offending, right? Well allow them to participate in society by voting.
    6. Which has been very little. It's tricky to deal with when people are dying for the EU flag when you want to stay neutral with regards to armed conflicts.
    7. Well you can't treat EU citizens differently to your own in the name of equality. This has been coming under scrutiny recently, but for now it shouldn't come to a vote: the UK can't break EU regulations.

    8. Yeah sorry if I'm coming across as patronising. I just can't take anyone seriously if they believe the EU's two main priorities are to regulate fruit and vegetables whilst simultaneously destroying Britishness but thank god you've gone a bit further than that.
     
  13. King

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    8BN a year, which may not or may not be translated to 13bn EUR, I can't find the original Guardian article.

    Britain's EU contribution to jump by £10bn as taxpayers carry burden of ailing eurozone - Telegraph

    The key line was 'depending on how you calculate it' my sentiments exactly, it doesn't consider the amount of EU nationals claiming benefits or using the NHS, or indeed the loss of business from red tape.

    Iceland, Norway and Switzerland have to deal with EU regulations when trading the European countries as they are following the host countries rules. I am sure they don't do that with other countries like Japan.

    Anyway if there isn't an EU then there isn't the regulations to begin, Greece and the Netherlands are also debating the EU also. It is a larger movement.

    Britain doesn't need the EU to subsidise poor regions, we can leave the EU and from the savings in membership costs still manage to subsidise poor regions like Merseyside.
     
  14. Harve

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    Indeed. In some ways it doesn't really matter for UKIP whether they're in the EU or merely in the EEA, because currently in the EU parliament they're being the resident trolls and don't really have any influence other than wasting their MEP seats rather than having someone else actually make use of them. Some kind of dismantling-from-the-inside operation.
     
  15. King

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    @ Harve

    1. This has been a principle of the EU since its conception as the EEC in 1958, before we'd even joined and had a referendum on it.
    2. The EU is the world's largest foreign aid donor. You don't like that. As long as you're not making too many compromises, and given your other points you're definitely not, it's alright, right? Cool.
    3. Nah, this didn't happen. The UK, as well as some other countries such as Luxembourg, Bulgaria and the Czech Republic opposed this, which is why. I do think that it needs more major economies to get involved for this to have a positive effect, ftr.
    4. Hahahaha no. At most, the EU were trying to better class fruit and veg by quality. Here's a guide to more bullshit: BBC NEWS | Europe | Guide to the best euromyths Since then, we've had olive oil and car licence plate flags.
    5. I have a feeling that you might view prison as a means of punishment rather than rehabilitation, which is not how any prison in civilised countries today works. Voting is a human right, and prisoners are humans. We want them to be able to participate once they're released from prison rather than re-offending, right? Well allow them to participate in society by voting.
    6. Which has been very little. It's tricky to deal with when people are dying for the EU flag when you want to stay neutral with regards to armed conflicts.
    7. Well you can't treat EU citizens differently to your own in the name of equality. This has been coming under scrutiny recently, but for now it shouldn't come to a vote: the UK can't break EU regulations.

    1. Most people are too young to have voted in the referendum and a lot of things have changed since then, including the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties, where the public were not allowed to on.

    2. There are people starving in our country, shouldn't the money be spent here? But the main reason is that it is not up to a supranational organisation to decide it should be up to Westminster.

    3. I didn't know that, but why should the EU dictate regulations when we have a government who can do that already?

    4. Again Westminster can decide the quality of vegetables, why do we need another layer of politicians deciding things we can decide ourselves?

    5. If you don't behave like a proper human then you don't deserve the 'human right' to vote and I am sure the relatives of murders would agree with this, besides as I said above Westminster can debate this issue without the EU.

    6. If the EU can have the power to dismantle and get an elected government overthrown resulting in human rights abuses then alarm bells should be ringing.

    7. If we weren't in the EU then we wouldn't be breaking regulations. Plus EU citizens are not the same as British citizens at all, they are a completely different nationality and shouldn't gain the entitlements of our citizens unless they have paid into the system or are fulfilling a skills shortage.

    8. Ok I understand you weren't being patronising.

    It is no different to SNP MP's in Westminster, who pushed hard for a Scottish Parliament and is part of the UK. UKIP is not different in that respect.
     
  16. Harve

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    1. Yeah that doesn't translate to €13 billion. The '£10 billion' is over 5 years, not on an annual basis. And that's simply contributions, which ignores changes in receipts. We're all prone to cherrypicking information, but when I do I make sure it's correct.

    2. The key line isn't 'depending on how you calculate it', it's that your idea of how much the UK is burdened by the EU is grossly overstated, along with nigh-on everyone else in that sort of camp. The calculation of the EU budget is indeed complicated, but if you've read my link, you'll realise that it's transparent.

    3. But we haven't managed to address south-east vs. the rest of the UK imbalances, have we? That's possibly the main reason why the union's slowly falling apart. The EU have at least managed to alter that a little bit.
     
  17. King

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    Its 40BN over 5 years, with a huge surge in payments.

    As I said above we may get many receipts, but what about lost business, lost jobs, inflated welfare bill. Your calculations don't show that at all.

    There is no evidence that the EU is helping the SE-RUK divide, infact it is getting even wider despite such payments. Life expectancy shows a growing north-south divide | Money | theguardian.com
     
  18. Beware Of You

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    Actually that isn't the EU, its the Council of Europe who runs the ECHR not the European Union, they predate the EU but I honestly wish they would get a different Logo!

    Even Russia is a member of the CoE.

    It wasn't giving the prisoners the vote, they couldn't have a blanket ban which means that the vast majority of prisoners don't get it anyway, but the UK isn't accepting the ruling anyway.

    Its an odd move since most prisoners don't care (a survey proved it) at all about voting, they have other things to worry about like writing to family and friends, getting on courses etc.
     
  19. imnotreallysure

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    Foreign nationals usually have to pay for NHS treatment - exceptions including people working for UK-based companies or international students.

    They don't - but they do not benefit from free movement of capital or circulation of goods with Japan, like they do with the EU. Goods leaving Norway for France, for example, are not subject to import quotas or discriminatory taxes.

    Merseyside received £840m of Objective One funding from the EU in the 2005/2006 financial year - that is a pretty big shortfall if we ever left. It isn't just Merseyside either - there would be no Manchester Metrolink without EU funding, or Doncaster Sheffield Airport.

    There is no evidence that leaving the EU would help, either. Westminster politics has failed the regions miserably and they (the politicians we elect to represent us in parliament) have done nothing to alleviate the situation. I do not trust Westminster to micromanage the entire country, and I certainly do not trust them to allocate funding wisely or appropriately.

    Anyway - you might be interested in knowing that Merseyside (read: Liverpool) has actually seen one of the largest rises in productivity of anywhere in the UK between 2004 and 2012. I think it is disingenuous to say that it has not benefited at all from EU funding.
     
    #19 imnotreallysure, Apr 24, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
  20. Beware Of You

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    I never got the point in having the EU flag on number plates, my car in Ireland has it with IRL written below it. It would make more sense to have the flag of the country surely? I mean wouldn't that make IDing the country where the car is registered easier?? Especially in the East where some places use Cyrillic or Greek?

    ---------- Post added 24th Apr 2014 at 04:28 PM ----------

    Also there is this to figure out who to vote for

    EUVox