General News Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; Only 1

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

Duh.

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

Omg Forbes is such a mess of a site jesus christ

As for the question at the end:

Yes, probably.

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

^ well with that being said, the us shouldn't have any involvement in russian politics. it's bad enough that we're close to war in ukraine

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

I thought human rights were banned in Putin's Russia because they were blasphemous or something?

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

50% of those who voted, voted for annexation. But only 30% of the people who were able to vote, did vote (that's were the 15% figure comes from 0.5*0.3=0.15=15%). That means the vote did technically pass, if there wasn't a limit on how few people did vote. That doesn't make it legal however (foreign troops, pressure on voters, the whole point of a unilateral referendum being illegal, etc.)

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

Bah!

Most Crimeans I or my family know are in favour of our annexation. Just go there; you'll understand it.

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

^^^ If a country is so thoroughly pissed off as to oust their own leadership by force why wouldn't you consider re-annexation and I say re-annexation because technically Ukraine is a splintered part of the former USSR. The U.S. needs to quit sticking their manly man bits in everyone else's shit, even if Putin is a homophobic prick of the highest order.

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

The USA has nothing to say about the Ukraine. Only the Ukrainians have something to say about their government and their desire to be annexed or not. Because the majority doesn't want to be annexed into Putins corrupt empire, he has to leave Ukraine alone.

If you use historical arguments, you could also argue for the re-annexation of the USA into the UK or Europe into France or silly stuff like that.

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

"Me and my buddies think it's right, therefore it HAS to be right for everyone" is a very dangerous line of reasoning. Name any injustice in the world, and you'll find that it was probably started by someone who thought just that.

And that's why one has to be extremely scrupulous about elections and referendums to make them truly meaningful: Without every nicety observed, every "i" dotted and "t" crossed they're not "the will of the people" they're "prejudices of me&my buddies."

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

Frankly, I think I can trust my friend, and he says that most Crimeans, at least in Sevastopol, would prefer to live in Russia over Ukraine, and don't mind the Russian presence in their land. Which is to say mostly Russian to begin with.

"The USA has nothing to say about the Ukraine. Only the Ukrainians have something to say about their government and their desire to be annexed or not. Because the majority doesn't want to be annexed into Putins corrupt empire, he has to leave Ukraine alone.

If you use historical arguments, you could also argue for the re-annexation of the USA into the UK or Europe into France or silly stuff like that."

Majority? Do you have any proof of this? Any Crimeans you know? Have you actually been there? Not conjecture like "this is a fraud", but actual trusted information?

Mind you, I am no zealot; Putin is far from perfect, and he IS a dictator. But these are our problems, and honestly, I do not like Westerners meddling in our affairs. Let us be honest; what exactly do your governments want to do with Ukraine? Something like Iraq, I guess.

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

The article's taken the lowest estimate for the turnout, from which they've taken the lowest estimate for Yes. From the highest estimates of this dubious report you could get 35% of the electorate. 15% vs. 97% sounds a lot more scandalous than 35% vs. 80%.

Don't get me wrong - the referendum's obviously not a stellar example of democracy but take any information countering it with a pinch of salt, also.

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

Yes, I have no doubt that maybe 30-70% of Crimeans like to be Russian. Sevastopol is quite pro-Russian though. The situation in places like Simferopol are different. I also have no doubt that your friend says that 'most Crimeans prefer Russia over Ukraine'. If you're a pro-Russian in Sevastopol you'll likely to have many pro-Russian friends and those who don't like it are not really going to say much about it..

I was talking about Eastern Ukraine.

These are Ukraine's problems, not Putins problems. At least they were until Putin started meddling and invading and bringing Ukraine to near war.

I think they want them either in the EU or having favourable free trade agreements with Europe without Russian-style corruption. I have no doubt our politicians wish to increase trade and make money, but there is actually some empathy with Ukraine too and a desire for Ukraine to become a free democratic state.

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

You imply we are completely devoid of empathy for the Ukrainians? That there was not any corruption before us?

Let us be honest: we know what kind of democratic state Iraq has become. And what about the economical state of Greece? Are you sure that Ukraine won't follow suit? Surely you are not the angels you pretend to be.

We fight to spread our influence, yes, but so do you.

He was actually pro-EU until the situation in Ukraine destabilised and Crimea decided it needed protection. He has an Ukrainian surname, too, so I doubt he is biased.

*cough cough* Euromaidan *cough* It's not that Ukraine wasn't unstable before we came.

Can I have a question, by the way? How is Putin any different in that regard from your politicians? Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya...

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

Agreed. The EU is still better though than Putin, for promoting liberal democracy, free press and human rights.

I don't think many western countries fought wars lately to annex land against the wishes of the population of the respective countries. Neither do I think that most western countries violently oppress minorities or still possess colonies with a repressive regime.

That still doesn't give Putin a right to invade a sovereign nation.

As far as I know there has been no intervention in Syria apart from the removal of chemical weapons (One case in which we can actually thank Putin).
I think the Bush and Blair administrations need to be persecuted by the International Court of Justice for their role in Iraq.
I don't know about Libya and Afghanistan (didn't follow those as closely).

The wrongs of other nations are no excuse for wrongs of your own nation in any case.

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

Caucasus. Does the Russian government actually prosecute hate-crimes against sexual minorities?

---------- Post added 8th May 2014 at 03:55 PM ----------

Yea, that was dumb.

 

Re: Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; On

I have no doubt that Crimea's annexation was done in order to ensure Russia a military port in the black sea on the scenario that Ukraine would join NATO and push Russia off Crimea. Putin himself said it in a long interview some days ago. Obviously he also said it was for helping Russian people there and because these people wanted it (which I don't believe).

But I don't believe either in Western propaganda that tries to portray Russia as an imperial resource-hungry power that wants to conquer the world. I'm sure Russia's foreign policy is mainly concerned with its safety as a country in their neighborhood, and the annexation of Crimea was done following that line, because economically it will cost them to equal social protection of Crimean people to Russian standards and building all the infraestructure needed to connect Crimea to Russia.

Anyways, any critical view on Russia's goverment acts in Ukraine's crisis without corresponding critical view on USA and EU's acts is either plainly ignorant or wretchedly hypocritical. These powers supported the Maidan revolution as a retaliation against deposed Ukranian president for not signing Europe Association Agreement, and are commanding the military and covert operations against pro-Russians via CIA agents in Kiev which among other things have resulted in over 40 pro-Russians killed and burned alive inside a building in Odessa, including women (even a pregnant one). Yanukovich himself, all corrupted as he was, never went as far as using the army against his own people, and USA and UE goverments called him a tyrant and oppressor against freedom-loving protesters of Maidan, but according to them the current interim goverment of Ukraine is a fair government that tries to maintain the order in the country against evil terrorist pro-Russians protesters.

But reasons aside, what I think about Crimea's people is that they will be far better as part of Russia than under the rule of the psychopaths that are governing Ukraine right now.