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General News 4-party politics?

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by sam the man, May 23, 2014.

  1. sam the man

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    So we're seeing articles everywhere about UKIP's performance in the local elections on Thursday as well as the likelihood of a good performance in the Euro elections, and a very common theme I've noticed in nearly all the analyses I've read is the emergence of an era of 4-party politics in the UK.

    *Tl;dr - last para at the bottom*

    Doubtless, UKIP has caused massive disruption in the political scene in this election; the knives seem to be sharpening already in the Labour and Lib Dem camps (I read Lib Dem activists have started an E-petition calling for Clegg to be replaced by the summer: Lib Dem local election results suggest party could lose 20 parliamentary seats | Politics | The Guardian, and Miliband has come under fire as well: Local elections 2014: surge by Ukip throws Labour into poll crisis - Telegraph ; Ed Miliband told: raise your game | Politics | The Guardian).

    The big question now is whether UKIP will break into Westminster next year. I'm not so sure about this, firstly because the obvious is that under FPTP people will be swayed to vote for a party they think has a reasonable chance of winning and this arguably works against UKIP; people will get to the booth and end up voting Big Three just because their vote will make more of a difference that way. Secondly the local elections and Euro elections especially are seen as a protest vote of sorts, so as many articles have commented what this was really about was the wilful ignorance of immigration as a political issue and reluctance to engage with UKIP by the elite- the electorate registering their discontent with LibLabCon policy rather than voting for UKIP as a serious governing party. Thirdly, now UKIP has the attention of the main 3, they'll probably engage UKIP seriously this time around and try and develop clearer stances on immigration and Europe- this might further take some steam out of the UKIP machine. On that note it's worth noting that their projected national share in local elections actually went down from last year's, and they didn't outright win a single council.

    On that basis I don't see UKIP winning more than a seat or two in Westminster next year as very likely, though they will still have the potential to massively disrupt other parties' fortunes. UKIP's policies are broadening, but I think they're still the single-issue, populist, anti-establishment party which is why they're doing so well in the (very) disaffected public mood. They might well get into Westminster at some point, but I can't visualise them lasting more than two or three more election cycles before their support collapses or they're absorbed by/ subordinated to the usual 3 parties. Just my opinion, but I don't think the "4-party era" will be very long-lived, if you could say it's come about at all. At the least I think it's too early to call. There's been an earthquake, yes, but whether it marks a completely new political era is in my eyes up for debate.

    I'm interested to know what you think. Have we truly entered a four-party political era? Will UKIP win a substantial number of seats in Westminster and stay there as viable competitors? Will they take the Lib Dems' place as the third party? What would it take on the part of "the establishment" to neutralise the UKIP threat, since its tactics have failed so far? Any other thoughts on the challenges being faced by the leaders in the wake of the local results?

    Edit: 500th post :grin:
     
  2. Dented

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    Number of MPs and councils UKIP had before Thursday: 0
    Number of MPs and councils UKIP had after Thursday: 0

    If it weren't for the BBC featuring them as much as they possibly could, this debate probably wouldn't be happening.
     
  3. Aussie792

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    UKIP is being pushed as a more viable party than it is; their electoral presence is far less than the presence given in the national media. UKIP isn't influential enough to permanently influence politics without having a more solid base made from something other than xenophobia and anti EU attitudes; soon the tabloids will have something other than Brussels and the foreign hordes stealing jobs to complain about, especially during economic stability.

    UKIP might win a few seats, but I don't see them as a feasible threat to the Conservatives and Labour, even if the Lib-Dems are damaged. I think that the mainstream Labour and Conservative MPs might be more willing to help each other (not out of any moral good, but out of pragmatism) than to give UKIP what it wants.

    It's nothing nearly as dangerous as the Front National in France (admittedly France also has a stronger Left, unlike the watery Labour labour and other social policies). The FN have somewhat terrifying levels of support and policies which make de Gaulle look like a lovely chap. The UK is not yet in any severe danger of extreme politics threatening the stability of regular centre-left to centre-right parties.
     
  4. sam the man

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    Along similar lines to my thoughts. Disillusionment about immigration and current EU conditions will probably sustain them for a couple of years more I think. They'll last a little longer, but by the end of the next parliament they'll have largely fizzled out with their influence confined to the Euros again. A sizeable part of their base also seems to be from Labour, voters I'd imagine wouldn't instinctively ally themselves with such a party as UKIP so whose support is fairly unreliable. In generals they'd probably be nearly irrelevant.

    On a side note, I guess the Big Three could ignore UKIP, but then again they've already tried that and if anything it's only added more fuel to the fire of voter alienation. Similarly the sustained media attacks had pretty much the opposite effect to what was intended. If they gave immigration and Europe more status as political issues like UKIP are doing, and genuinely put effort into knocking down UKIP arguments (without personal attacks) they could just starve UKIP of their oxygen. Not quite pandering to UKIP, just applying more (serious) scrutiny to the issues UKIP are talking about, since that's apparently what the electorate want the talk to be about.

    Ah well. If anything, the main thing this election has indicated is that we seem to be on course for another hung parliament given that Miliband's in such a weak position for the GE next year.
     
  5. imnotreallysure

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    Four-party politics? Hardly. Sure, UKIP have had success at the local elections, and will undoubtedly do well at the Euro elections, but this is almost never extrapolated to the national elections - the Greens are expected to get between 14 and 17% of the vote at the Euro elections, but they will get nowhere near the same level of votes at the nation elections next year.

    Plus, as mentioned already, they got zero councils despite their apparent success, and they will get, what, 2 MPs next year, at best? They are a party that people turn to when the locals come around to vent their frustration at the main parties, but when it comes to the national elections, people always return to whatever party they always voted for - and that's almost always Labour or Conservatives. People are going to vote for whatever party they think has the best chance of getting into parliament.

    Also, there is a clear geographical pattern with regards to UKIP - their success has largely been confined to a bunch of crap towns with far-right voters such has Rotherham, or abandoned, isolated shire counties that are forgotten by the main parties because they are not considered a priority when voting comes around - best examples are Norfolk and Lincolnshire, which are usually Tory strongholds, but have seen big UKIP gains - they're largely rural and find themselves disconnected from the bulk of the country's transportation network, with exceptionally poor rail links and consistently overlooked by governments as secondary. They have had very limited success in larger cities and their hinterlands - gaining no seats in virtually all of England's major cities - exceptions being Sheffield and Bristol. Until UKIP can increase their votes significantly in the metropolitan areas, their success will be limited.

    Basically, UKIP is the party for crap towns and abandoned shires, and disillusioned voters looking to vent their frustration at local elections - where most people don't bother voting. No doubt they will follow a similar route to the BNP - big gains, lots of hullabaloo and press coverage about their apparent rise to prominence, then all of a sudden they disappear into the abyss and nobody cares anymore because their true nature is revealed and people return to their previous parties, and normality is restored.

    FPTP will always be cruel to smaller parties - they might be able to gain lots of seats at local elections, but when it comes to general elections, they never fare well. Until we move away from FPTP, it will always be a choice between Labour and Conservative - with the occasional look-in for the Liberal Democracts (last Liberal Prime Minister was 1922, so we can basically conclude they have no chance as well, especially with Nick Clegg as their leader).

    I also agree with Aussie - the rise of far-right parties in France is rather striking - and the same is true for other European countries. UKIP might be xenophobic or even racist, but they are not fascist and don't pose a significant threat. I mean, look at Germany - they might elect a Neo-Nazi MEP!
     
    #5 imnotreallysure, May 25, 2014
    Last edited: May 25, 2014