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General News Officer Who Shot Unarmed Teen Carrying Toy Gun Won't Be Charged

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by AwesomGaytheist, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. AwesomGaytheist

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    Sonoma deputy who shot, killed unarmed 13-year-old will not be charged*-*Los Angeles Times

    An officer who shot a 13-year-old boy who was carrying an Airsoft gun in Santa Rosa, CA to death, and in a separate incident pulled a gun twice on a driver who'd done nothing more than an illegal lane change, will not be charged and has been allowed back on the force.

    Sonoma County District Attorney Jill Ratvich announced she was not going to charge Deputy Erick Gelhaus with any crime, stating that while the teen was unarmed, the perception was enough to warrant deadly force.

    In October, 2013, Andy Lopez Cruz was walking to a friend's house with his replica AK-47, when John Wayne drove up, got out of the vehicle, and put 8 bullets into the boy, killing him. He'd been reinstated to the force for a few months, and now will get off scot free.
     
    #1 AwesomGaytheist, Jul 7, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
  2. danball7

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    :icon_eek: :jawdrop: I have no words for this... how could someone think it was ok to immediately shoot a teenager even if they are carrying a gun? You at least talk to them first, and find out if it's a fake, since 13yos aren't very likely to have access to real AK-47s. I guess this is the gung-ho, shoot-first mentality coming to the fore... RIP innocent teen.
     
  3. Vampire

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    What... The... ... People who are supposed to protect our society do the exact opposite. AND HE WASN'T CHARGED? The fuck. Also, why'd he have to put not one, not two, but EIGHT bullets into the poor boy? As far as I know, officers are trained to shoot twice in the abdomen and once in the head in these kind of situations, not to empty their entire magazine on him. Poor kid. Poor family.
     
  4. Some Dude

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    This kid was walking around with an exact replica of an AK47, which if it was real is an incredibly dangerous weapon. The gun didnt have the orange tip on the end of it that is required on all toy guns, so the gun looked 100% like a real one. I wouldn't call this guy a "John Wayne Wannabe" as he had not shot a previous suspect before hand in his over 24 years as a cop. That lane change story seems odd though. The cops got out of their car, his behind the doors, and screamed out to the kid to drop the gun, the kid then decides not to drop the gun and instead turns around with the gun in hand. If the gun was real as it looked, with that weapon he could have easily killed both officers and any civilians in the area at an alarming speed. The officer was in fear for his life as anyone would be
     
  5. Foxface

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    I'm sorry...I know full well police can be abusive...but let me get this straight

    A deputy shows up, a kid is walking around with something that looks EXACTLY like an AK-47 and is told to drop the gun at least once....

    am I missing something here because I'd be pretty darn scared for my life too...AK-47's are sickening how deadly they are
     
  6. Some Dude

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    I completely agree. I don't understand why people think the officer should risk his life on the chance that the completely real looking gun is fake
     
  7. Foxface

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    I mean like I said...I absolutely agree the police have taken things WAY too far a lot of times....but all I see is a replica of an extremely deadly weapon that if real would have easily penetrated armor that the officer was wearing. The officer (whether once or twice) orders the kid to drop the gun, the kid doesn't have the orange tip as it had been broken off (story below in link) and the kid menaces

    now imagine ALL of this in our gun-happy, CCW, shoot-em-up, mass murdering and spree shooting country

    I'm sorry a 14 year old is now gone. I truly am...but this could have been avoided if this kid wouldn't have broken so many simple and obvious rules
     
  8. Candace

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    I...can't....I have no words to show how much disgust I have for this. He did the exact opposite of what he was required to do and NOTHING HAPPENED?? What is WRONG with this planet? -_-
     
  9. Foxface

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    what was he supposed to do?

    menacing kid, deadly weapon (at least in appearance) with orange safety broken off, ordered to put weapon down, didn't and menaced...what is this exact opposite he did?

    I know the police is not the military but when I was in the armed forces and in armed security it was simple for us

    you always ordered the deadly weapon (whose orange blaze was broken off) be dropped (the cop did) and if threatened (the kid did) then you have the right to use force to protect yourself (he did)

    I'm not trying to be inflammatory but what was he supposed to do?
     
  10. Candace

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    Ask him where he got the gun? He could have found out that it was indeed a fake and saved a life in the process...
     
  11. Some Dude

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    So a kid has what looks like an AK47 in hand and after not dropping it when told to, he turns around towards you with the gun in hand and in that situation you would ask "where he got the gun"?
     
  12. PaganPoetry

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    I kinda agree too, what is a 13 year old kid doing walking around carrying a gun....I mean with the history the US has with mass shootings of course they will be very cautious with what happens.......It's very unfortunate for the kid and his family though...
     
  13. Foxface

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    Again...want to make sure you know I am being genuine here...I know these things blow up sometimes

    So he approaches kid who appears to have a deadly weapon. Deputy tapped the siren and kid turned. Deputy called for weapon to be dropped. Kid turns and RAISES weapon

    No charges for Sonoma County deputy in toy-gun killing - SFGate

    Where precisely was the moment when the Deputy had time to sit and request a receipt of this toy weapon that looked exactly like an AK-47 whose orange blaze was broken off? During the time the kid raised the weapon? I would have shot too.

    And as far as the whole 8 bullets thing goes...I am going to lay out a bit of truth here. Pretending for a moment this gun was real (which he clearly thought it was, and rightly so) when you have a gun pointed at you I am not thinking about praying my three typical shots (abdomen/head) are going to do their business....I just want the threat to stop

    By the way El I know you didn't mention the eight shots thing, that was a general statement

    But still my comment stands. The deputy had NO time to sit and get into a controlled conversation when some kid is raising a weapon potentially to firing position...you try and talk through that and you die if the situation were real (which again he did think so)
     
  14. Some Dude

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    I feel bad for the kid and family as well. My condolences to them.
     
  15. Foxface

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    Oh yeah...make no mistake I wish he was still here, and in so many cases I agree with the victim of the story, like that recent severe beating of the woman by CHP. Terrible and unwarranted but this is pretty clear cut to me.
     
  16. PaganPoetry

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    Oh I wasn't saying you didn't care about the kid...I was referring more to that I was agreeing with the statement you said and that I also feel bad for the family
     
  17. Foxface

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    fair enough...I an never be too careful on the interwebs with lack of tone and all :slight_smile:
     
  18. AwesomGaytheist

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    To be quite honest, and excuse me for my language, but I don't give a flying :***: what your perception is. If you shoot someone who was unarmed, you were not justified. End of discussion. Especially when it's legal for to carry a real assault weapon and the cops just talk the guy down, but carrying a toy gun will get you shot 8 times by a hybrid John Wayne/Barney Fife.

    This happened in Kalamazoo, MI, just a stone's throw from where I go to school. Would one of these KPS officers been justified to just drop his sorry ass? The circumstances are almost identical.
    [youtube]GQwlfXdDDYA[/youtube]
     
    #18 AwesomGaytheist, Jul 8, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2014
  19. Foxface

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    I am guessing the don't give a you know what comment was at the cop not me

    I have several realistic problems with your response, with all respect intended of course

    1. Perspective IS on trial here - A kid had what was thought to be an assault weapon and raised his firing arm at a deputy. The orange blaze was gone...purposefully...you cannot tell me that he was 'unarmed.' He had a toy yes, but in the heat of a moment if someone raises what appears to be an assault rifle at a cop who offered you the chance to put it down, I have little sympathy left for them.

    As I stated, I am sorry he is gone and I feel for the parents, but he is gone because he acted very VERY poorly even when given chances.

    Perspective. I have it as I have worked armed transport in the military and armed security outside of the military. I'm not saying you don't get an opinion but you really need to not be reactive and look at this from a logical point of view of the cop.

    We are trained not to use force unless threatened. I am well aware of that. If you are presented a promising threatening situation in the heat of the moment, I am telling you realistically you aren't thinking "boy I wonder if that's a toy. Maybe I should see where he got it and get a receipt." You are thinking "He raised an assault rifle towards me. It's me or him." That's real whether you want to admit it or not

    So again...look at the facts as presented

    Kid walking
    Has what look exactly like an assault rifle
    Orange blaze was purposefully removed. This is the only way you can tell from a distance in the heat of a moment
    Cop approaches and exits vehicle
    Cop calls out to kid using a blip of the siren
    Kid reacts and turns
    Cop demands gun be dropped
    Kid RAISES his firing arm threatening cop
    Cop feels threatened...

    It's a terrible situation...it really is...but those are the facts of the case as presented...clear cut case of a cop perceiving a grievous threat on his life

    Now...you get me some credible evidence that the kid threw down the weapon, cowered, had the orange blaze, cop didn't offer the chance to end it peaceably...then I am 100% with you. He should be tried for manslaughter at the very least

    But until those things change, the facts as witnessed are as I stated above...threatening circumstances...that is what a cop is TRAINED to do. What if it turned out to be real? (I know it wasn't) but what? The cop should stop every armed person who points a gun at him and have a conversation about if this is real?

    To me the most important part of this is that he gave him a chance to end it. Then the situation could have been resolved without a death

    So I'll say it again.

    I've been armed in and out of the military and no offense but if someone presents me in the same situation and I GIVE THIS KID A CHANCE to disarm and he raises firing arm at me...it's on

    you can't hate my opinion and that's fine.

    People are VERY clearly reacting to this...and understandably so...but there are things to consider here

    2. Don't bring Kalamzaoo into this...and I will tell you why

    Kalamzaoo is NOT Sonoma. The KPS incident is not relevant to the incident at hand because this deputy does not work in Kalamazoo and the incident didn't take place there

    But also, as I have said I think twice now that I 100% agree with you that in a lot of these cases the police are too brutal or strong-armed. I am only talking about THIS incident. It does not absolve the other cops who acted in the wrong. I am only saying in this case, I don't believe he was wrong based on his training, my training and yes the PERCEPTION of what happened.

    If you as a cop want to stop and discuss the finer points of a perceived threat what a kid or adult points what you think is a loaded weapon at you, good on you...I don't take those chances

    EDIT -

    3. Given the state we live in with mass shootings and such, that just compounds the issue...it was a stupid, poor decision on the kids part in many ways

    Respectfully.
     
    #19 Foxface, Jul 8, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2014
  20. LiquidSwords

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    Maybe if this happened in a country where the chances of a 13 year old walking round with an AK were more than a million to one, the cop wouldn't have assumed it was a real weapon. This sort of incident is just not something which could realistically happen in Western Europe, Australasia, Japan, even Canada really, ie any other first world country. That incidents like this, which seem to happen somewhat regularly in the US, aren't national scandals and for many reasons, is something I struggle to understand.