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General News A plot twist in the Ferguson police case...

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by QueerTransEnby, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. QueerTransEnby

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  2. AwesomGaytheist

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    Even if that were true, that's still not justified because he was unarmed. The key here is "unarmed" and in my book, whether a police shooting or not, that's the only thing that should matter.
     
  3. Jwis

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    A large man charging towards you is reason enough to defend yourself. If a cop tells you to do something you do it. Justified or not - you fight that battle in the court room not the streets.

    You don't know if they are unarmed or not - what if he had a concealed weapon? He already proved that he was a threat to others.
     
  4. BryanM

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    If he charged him, he could have tazed him, made an evasive maneuver. There are a lot of things he could have done instead of shooting him like an animal.
     
  5. Sitri

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    Hmm. I'm skeptical of this. The source is a random YouTube video and a transcription of a fuzzy conversation (that I can't hear) provided by a site called The Conservative Tree House.
     
  6. Aldrick

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    I'm in agreement with all of the above.
     
  7. DMark69

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    I don't know the credibility of the supposed witness, that would be for a court to decide. If someone were charging at me, and I felt threatened I would use any means I had available to defend myself, including deadly force if I were carrying. That is as a civilian, and I believe the police would be right to defend themselves too.

    If someone were attacking you from 25 ft way, it takes less than 3 seconds to close that distance, they are therefore an immediate threat, there is no time to determine if they are armed, defense is a logical and legal reason to shoot.

    I don't know for sure if this was the case in MO, that again is for the court to decide.
     
  8. Pret Allez

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    Actually, it does matter if he was charging the officer, and yes it would be exculpatory.

    However, I still have serious reservations about the source and authenticity of this material.
     
  9. Jwis

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    And tazing does not always work. Especially on larger people. As it was pointed out the distance that he charged from would have been closed in just a second or two.

    I do feel bad that a life was lost, but the blame is not just on the officer.
     
  10. Pret Allez

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    I feel like there's a bit of anti-police bias going on in the responses, and I'm extremely worried about the presumption that non-lethal force is always preferable.

    There's this thing called the Tueller Drill. It's a self-defense exercised based on a certain danger zone presented by an attacker who is closing distance. This is also called the "21 Foot Rule" or the "Knife Rule," but I believe it applies with any weapon or no weapon, as long as the defender reasonably believes--within that distance--that the use of force is required to prevent imminent serious injury or death.

    Again, just so nobody thinks I'm a shill for the cops or totally uncritical of racism in our society or on The Force, I remain unconvinced that the suspect was actually charging.
     
  11. AlamoCity

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    Depending on the actual actions of Brown, the officer could have used appropriate force in the use of force continuum. Regarding tasers, I don't even know if the officers even had tasers; heck, they didn't even have dash cams.

    My uncle works in the law enforcement and he once was justified to use mace on a guy who spit on him and was threatening to do so again. Depending on how the officer perceived the threat and how it manifested, lethal force could well have been completely justified.

    That said, I always remain skeptical of certain conservative websites. Well, in general, I'm just skeptical of news sites :lol:.
     
  12. Ruprect

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    This..

    I'm curious what evasive manoeuvres could have been used per the suggestion of Brian. Weren't there two of them walking along? The addition of an extra person changes the dynamic of the situation drastically.

    ---------- Post added 17th Aug 2014 at 06:34 PM ----------

    And this.
     
  13. Typhoon

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    As I have previously stated in another thread, just another Travyon Martin. It's very easy to talk when you aren't in the police officer's shoes. Charging at police, trying to take their weapon etc. etc. is suicide in any country, regardless of whether you do raise your hands or indicate you are unarmed. The officer you just attacked has no way of knowing that you are unarmed and in the heat of the moment anything can happen.

    If this is taken to Court, it's extremely unlikely that the officer will lose the case. He had every right to defend himself if he felt that his life was in danger and that's what he will need to prove.

    For those crying ''unarmed'', it is impossible to know if someone is completely unarmed unless they have been strip-searched, sometimes even undergoing intimate strip searches. Small knives, or weapons have known to be concealed in various parts of one's clothes, and in certain occasions even anuses and vaginas. The officer wouldn't have been able to know whether a man who had just attacked him had a weapon on him he might use at any point. I've seen this too many times in criminal cases, and they never win. The only reason this has been publicized is because of the whole ''racism'' issue, which is entirely bollocks. Meaning that in the nicest possible way of course. Brown isn't dead because he is black. He's dead because of his recklessness and if I may, stupidity. Many people are shot daily by the police for less.
     
    #13 Typhoon, Aug 17, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  14. mobrien1993

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    I haven't heard of this, so I'm not sure how much I believe if this. I live pretty close to the area where all this is going on and to be honest it's just getting worse each day. I just find it crazy with everything that is happening. It started out that one guy who happened to be black died because a white police officer shot him. I grew up in Florissant which is right next to ferguson and there has always been racial tension there. However within a couple days it was discovered that mike brown (the guy who died) had robbed a convenience store and his friend that was with him admitted to that. I'm not saying that made it right that he was shot and died. But all this started with one guy dying and then many people in the town began burning places down as well as breaking into them, then the police were ordered to stop any enforcement so everyone who was trying to be safe had to fend for themselves, and now people here are just at a loss. I mean just last night I was watching the local news and a young woman was terrified called the police and when they realized where she was from they told her they couldn't help her because police weren't allowed to be involved. I'm not racist whatsoever but I have to say if the situation was reversed and it was a black police officer who shot a white man I don't think all this would be going on.

    I'll admit yeah it wasn't right for him to die but this is beyond crazy. I don't know how much of the story everyone else is getting, but here it's on the news 24/7 and it feels like it is never going to end.
     
  15. AwesomGaytheist

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    That's just it: if you have mace, if you have a baton, if you have a taser, and someone is coming at you unarmed, you don't just pull your gun and shoot them. Excessive force is a pervasive problem in America, and unfortunately it's only getting worse with officers who've had the authority of a badge go to their head. Officer Rivieri from Baltimore is precisely what's wrong with law enforcement in America. He roughed up a kid because he called the cop "dude."

    Even in my hometown, population 6,086, we still have something like 30 cops on the local police department, not to mention the county sheriffs as well as the state troopers that are based at the post on the outskirts of town. The police chief was forced to resign after the officers' union held a no-confidence vote over allegations of sex discrimination from a councilmember, and mismanagement of the department, and another resident won a lawsuit after he was beaten by two officers. This coming out of a town where people move to avoid this sort of thing.
     
  16. Candace

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    The guy was unarmed. That still doesn't negate the fact that the officer killed him with 4-6 shots. Use a taser. something of the latter. Killing the guy should be your last option.
     
  17. Jwis

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    The cop didn't know tbat he was unarmed. He posed a threat. If someone is threatining me I am going to assume they are armed for my own saftey. You are completly ignoring the fact that the cop only had seconds to protect himself.

    How are you supose to know someone is unarmed? You cant until after the fact.
     
  18. AwesomGaytheist

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    I'm not ignoring it, I'm saying it doesn't matter. You don't just instantly resort to deadly force, if you have a taser or a baton or mace, you use those methods first.
     
  19. Jwis

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    If you have a second to protect yourself from an immediate threat I am going to choose the weapon with the largest stopping power. Every time.
     
  20. BradThePug

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    The latest news out says that he was shot 6 times. Even if the officer was being charged, that is excessive force. Shooting somebody twice in the head and four times in the torso is excessive.