LGBT News Russia: New Report on the Situation

It's not just gays that don't want to live in Russia. My mom's boss is afraid to even visit her family there for too long because she feels the iron curtain could go back up at any time. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it did.

 

I'm glad to see their currency crashing, and as gas prices fall,Putin is going to look more and more like an idiot, who runs an economy based on oil and cronyism.I feel so sad for the people there, but I do hope that the current situation jolts people into an awareness of how horrible Putin is, as opposed to an increased nationalism...time will tell. I think the Ruble has lost at least 45% of it's value...

 

I think it's terrible what's happening in Russia, but I can't help but feel happy that Putin's precious empire is going down the drain.

 

As hilarious as it to watch it all fall apart, you just wonder what the backlash from the populace will be against Putin and those in power in Russia or whatever those people point the finger of blame at.

Should also point out that a lot of ordinary people are losing their savings and heading for real financial trouble because of this. It's not just oligarchs, Putin and his cronies that'll run into problems because of this.

 

I have been a long time fan of Russian culture. I speak Russian. I plan on studying abroad in Russia. I dabbled with the idea of becoming a Russian major, but I ended up sticking with general Linguistics.

I think it is very difficult for people to acknowledge the fact that Russian culture is not Western culture. They are called "Slavophiles." They are extremely proud of their heritage, their nation and their culture. There are many reasons why that westerners just won't comprehend... their nation has been trampled on for over a millennium and the rise of the USSR led to a strong Russia that persists today even following the collapse.

I know this is a taboo suggestion, but Russians have a highly orthodox culture and an **extremely** powerful gender role culture persists. It is only polite to respect their culture. Homosexuals are persecuted, yes, but they certainly are not persecuted to the extent of many other regions of the world (i.e. Africa, middle east, much of Asia).

Much of the gay persecution in Russia is Western propaganda. That's really really (really) important to recognize. We are only shown the worst of the worst. It's like showing images of Ferguson and calling America a racist tyranny or showing a picture of the Westboro Baptist Church and calling America nasty homophobes.

It's fairly rude to suggest that Russia's economy should collapse because of your dislike for their President. The country loves the President, he is great for Russia, he is insanely popular.

Their culture is simply highly conservative, gender-wise. We were too only a decade or two ago. Wait... it's probably eventually going to change. Remember... homosexuality was illegal in the United States only 11 years ago.

Again... "Putin's precious empire" is also a nation of 200 million other people.

 

Yes... this is also important to be mentioned, which I forgot. Homosexual persecution is absolutely a distraction. It's also pandering to the Russian Orthodox Church (which is really important in Russia for reasons unknown to me...). Russians themselves have a deep dislike for homosexual relations and were somewhat put off by de-Stalinization post-USSR.

America and the West do this but not in the same manner which leads to a minority being persecuted.

 

I'm actually buying this. I wonder what they propagate against the west and how much of it is true.

But I'm going to be a rude-ass and say I'm kinda glad it's crashing but I will also say it's depressing to realize how many people of this country are going to suffer.

Is it because recently anti-lgbt laws have been put in place in Russia the reason we give it more attention than Islamic republics?

 

The world is getting crazy

 

Yep, that is what we have here.
Many people in USSR were in prison so that explains homophobia in Russia. Prison slang. People don't live according to the law, they live according to "prison rules or macho rules"

 

I still think it's useful that pressure is being applied, and find the falling oil prices funny. Russia needs a $100/barrel price to balance it's books, and with oil falling to almost half that, whoa, Nellie! Putin's gas station is gonna have to diversify.

So as the Saudis and the US Pump up the Volume of oil onto the market, I'm still going to sit back, and laugh at Putin. He's an ass, and an evil man, and the Russian people would be better off without this former KGB sadist.

Speaking of Pump up the Volume, maybe I'll make a video of that song, with Putin and oil prices, and post it to YouTube, for shits and giggles!

But I really hope he is put under pressure by this; already, he's starting to back down with his tough talk on The Ukraine.

Sorry to sound rude, but Putin is 1,000,000 times as rude; me, I'm like Mother Teresa, compared to him.

 

Brenndo -

I can see that you greatly enjoy your RT News feed. That is unfortunate.

"Wait," you say. That is one of the most devlish words in the English language. "Wait," you say. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait for what? That things might "probably" or 'maybe' change? It has never been proven in the history of the world, when there has been systematic injustice that waiting has ever been to the advantage of the oppressed. That word "wait" is a familiar refrain, because you are not the first in the history of our world to urge oppressed peoples to wait. And as it was true then, it is just as true now--whenever someone utters the word "wait" they really mean "never."

There has never been a right time for an oppressor--and that is what the Russian state is--to be challenged. Freedom and justice is never given voluntarily by an oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. This is the way it has always been, and the way it will always be.

You sit there, presumably comfortable in your American college life, meaning that you are at least middle class, and certainly wealthy by the standards of the rest of the world. You enjoy the benefits of hard earned struggle. Benefits and privileges that your fellow queers earned for you. They sacrificed everything for you. Their reputations, their careers, their families, and in some cases even their lives. They fought, and they fought, and they fought, and they struggled, and they struggled, and every benefit and privilege that you possess today as a queer person is a direct result of that.

And it is with these benefits and privileges that you did not earn yourself, but were given to you by others who gave more than you could ever hope or imagine, that you look across the ocean to fellow queers in another country. People just like yourself. People struggling for the same benefits and privileges that you take for granted, and you tell them "wait." 'Your time is coming', you say. 'It has only been a little while, after all, look at where America was only 11 years ago! Look at all the other countries that are so much worse!'

It is very convenient for you to say things like this, when you are not there to live it first hand. When you do not have to endure what they have to endure. When you do not have to suffer as they suffer. It is easy for you to turn a blind eye to the injustice done, and you are willing to do this because facing it is inconvenient for you. It gets in the way of the false mental image you have built up of Russia. It gets in the way of your plans. I am sure that they are sorry that their suffering has inconvenienced you. Perhaps, in the future, they will endeavor to suffer more quietly at the hands of their oppressors. After all, what is more important, their lives and freedom, or the illusion of Russia you have built up in your mind?

You ask us to respect their culture. However, I will tell you bluntly, that any culture that abuses its people, any culture that commits acts of injustice against fellow human beings, does not deserve respect nor admiration. It deserves to be challenged and reformed. Protecting basic human dignity and human rights must always take priority over cultural deference.

I will also tell you bluntly, that people within our community such as yourself are a grave disappointment. People like you are content in what has been earned for you by others. This has proverbially speaking made people like you fat, lazy, and apathetic. You do not fight for more for yourself, because you do not believe that you deserve it. You are comfortable with what you have, and fighting for more dangerously upsets that comfort. Because of the comfort, the privilege, and the benefits that were earned for you by others, it makes it easy for you to turn a blind eye to your fellow queers who suffer only for a fraction of what you have already been given. It is bewildering to hear, and painful to watch. I think many people believe that the people that stand in our way, that prevent justice for all our people, are the bigots, the batterers, and the brutes. However, the reality is that it is people like yourself--both within our community directly and among our allies. Each of you are false and fake friends, individuals who seemingly come with outstretched hands, but in reality are filled with condescending and paternalistic moral turpitude. You are individuals that favor comfort, stability, and negative peace over justice, freedom, and positive peace. You are willing to stand with us, so long as you are denied a certain level of comfort. You will fight then, because you are directly impacted. However, once you get to a certain level of comfort you become afraid of losing it. You tell everyone that we do not need a place at the table, because those that oppress us are willing to give us some of their scraps. It is sad and pathetic. You feed like a parasite off of the hard work done by others, off the sacrifices they made, you wave your little pride flag under some magical delusion that you are worthy of even touching it, or understanding what it even means. You enjoy everything that other people give to you, but you give nothing back in return. You look at those who suffer far worse than you have ever suffered in your posh little American middle class life and you turn your back on them. Disgusting. Sad.

Enjoy your time in Russia, Brenndo. Hopefully the cries of your fellow queers do not distract from your enjoyment of their culture. Just tell them to suffer a little more quietly and to "wait". Surely, maybe, someday, "probably" their time is coming. Surely. "Probably."

 

We both fear eachother. We both propagate against one another. We both fail to understand one another.

Whoa... okay... this requires a response.

I don't watch RT. I study Russian language, literature and culture. Yet - you certainly will find much of the same sentiment on RT.

You live in Virginia. I live in New Hampshire. We must wait. That is what I meant by that.

You are right. It is unfortunate that they are oppressing homosexuals but by no means is it surprising. Their culture is heavily orthodox, as I said, and they demonize homosexuality as a byproduct of "The West." They fear the West big time.

Yes, I'm middle class.
We all earned benefits of struggles from the past. I mean... all we do is progress. The byproduct of a civilized society.
I live in the most socially liberal state in the country... so I'm spoiled.
... but I can still sympathize with the sentiment of other cultures.

They're not just another country, they're an entirely different culture. We are attacking Russia as if Russia were a Western country and it is not - that's the point I'm making. Different culture, different reasoning... we must just back off. They have been liberalizing on the issue of homosexuality... they really have been. We must just wait. Just like we had to wait for the old people to die. Same for the racists.

This is reiteration. My image of Russia is not false. It's proper reasoning. Lots of things Russia does make sense in the eyes of Russians same as things we do are ridiculous but make sense in our eyes.

Eastern Bloc - fear of the West [Germans killed 20+ million Russians, remember that]
Communism - Culture of collectivist mentality
Dictators - Millennium plus of strong iron fist dictators... they feel comfortable with a strong central power. General sentiment of Slavophiles.
Crimea - Meant to appease Russian people, Crimeans wished to rejoin Russia.
Ukraine - America instituted an illegal government. NATO promised it would never enter Ukraine. Russia freaks out (refer back to they fear the West)

War on Terror
Guatemala
Vietnam

I have noticed this sentiment from people slightly older than me. Massive change in homosexual sentiment between those born in the 70s/80s and those born in the 90s

Whoa... okay.
I'm not saying I agree with Russia... I never did. I say that I understand their culture, I respect their culture because I love Russian culture. I understand their reasoning.

But again... nothing I can do about it. Gotta wait... I'm just a lowly American.

omg...

I'm just gonna... ignore this...

Russians should fight. Americans should wait.


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I like Russia. They're a beautiful people, a beautiful society, beautiful culture. Hence I am willing to overlook their faults. I love Western culture as well, hence my ability to overlook our faults.

No one is perfect.

 

You are right about Russian culture. I do not disagree with anything you said about the Russian people or their culture. I understand their point of view. What I take objection to when you speak of their culture, is your request for us to be "polite" and to "respect" it.

I reject this notion because I do not believe people who brutalize and oppress others deserve respect. I believe that they deserve to be challenged, and that cultural reforms must be made.

No, I do not believe that this can be imposed from the outside, and particularly not by the West. However, that does not mean that we should sit idly by and do nothing. To "wait" for change to happen. No, we need to offer our oppressed brothers and sisters in Russia assistance where they need and request it, and fight to hold their government accountable for their actions. It is our responsibility to get their stories out to the wider world, and to draw attention to what is happening there. We cannot change Russia from the outside, but we can fight to make sure that they pay a heavy price for every queer person they brutalize.

Yes, we all have unearned benefits of struggles from the past. However, the question that looms over each of us, is what do we do with those benefits and privileges that we possess? How are we paying it forward to those who come after us? How are we honoring those who gave so much so that we can enjoy the lives that we lead today? I do not believe these are difficult questions to answer, because all we have to do is look around both here at home and around the world, and we will find people like ourselves in need of us. They need our voices. They need our support. We are free. They are not. By virtue of that we can do things that they cannot do.

I disagree that this is a byproduct of a civilized society. I disagree that progress is somehow naturally baked into a magical timeline. The fact of the matter is every gain we have ever made can eventually be lost. So long as there is even one single person on the face of the Earth willing to oppose us, willing to cause us harm, willing to strip from us the benefits, privileges, and rights we have fought so hard to earn--then there is always a chance.

If you look at the history of our people, you will realize that there have been times where we have enjoyed varying levels of freedom and equality. Then we lost it. We became oppressed again. And again. And again. And again. There are many reasons that this keeps happening, but the fact of the matter is that it CAN happen. So, it is incumbent upon each of us, not only to fight to extend our rights, privileges, and benefits, but also to constantly guard and be vigilant of our rear flank.

Any gain we have ever made always has a risk--even if it is small--of being lost.

You list those as if you think I am afraid of criticizing the West, and in particularly the United States for its own failings. You would be wrong. I am more than comfortable criticizing America and the West. The list of failings in both are very long.

No, no one is perfect. The goal, however, is not perfection. It is protecting our people from abuse, brutalization, and oppression.

We both know that, politically speaking, Putin and other political leaders are playing the same old game that has been played in the United States for generations. That is using queer people as scapegoats for their own failing policies.

The only thing that gives me pause in wishing for the complete collapse of Putin and his regime, is the fear of what could come after him could be much worse. The foundations of the attempted extermination of our people in Russia has already been laid down.

The question we should be asking ourselves right now, as queer individuals, is what happens if Putins regime falls. How can we give support to our people in Russia? How can we work to ensure whatever comes after Putin is not worse? How can we take advantage of the current situation, to further the struggle for equality for queer people in Russia? These are the questions we should be asking, and these are questions that you might be helpful with.

 

I think it is very important for people to not confuse a country's law with the country itself. If we judged every single country based upon their laws on homosexuality, then very few countries would be left innocent. Russia's propaganda law is bad, sure, but homosexuality isn't illegal. In Saudi Arabia, the punishment for being gay is death by stoning. Yeah, it's happened. Compared to that, Russia looks like the Netherlands when it comes to gay rights. And even where gays are not oppressed by law, they are still heavily oppressed by society. Dangers still exist for any openly gay people in countries like these. To single out Russia is ridiculous, without singling out most other countries out there.

Change takes time. For liberal western countries, it nearly happened overnight. One decade ago, gay rights was nowhere near where it is today worldwide. However, for conservative societies like Russia's, it is important to be patient. For a country to change something that has been the norm for so long takes a lot of time, and these gay rights movements haven't been around for long (or, at least, in the awareness of the public). I am confident that things will change, at least in the majority of these places...but nothing we can do will change the time at which it occurs. The most we can is try to find and help those who are gay that are living in some of these oppressive societies. Just like this website does!

Just like you Brenndo, I also really love Russian history and culture, even though I disagree with a lot of Russia's recent moves (although I understand it). I am also obviously against their gay propaganda law, but, to borrow from the ideology of the Christians' "love the sinner, hate the sin" saying, I "love the country, hate the law."

 

Putin is a strong and sensible leader.

 

...wait for it...

 

I'd hate to be living in Russia right now, gay or straight. They are getting closer and closer to the brink of economic depression, and the homophobes in the Russian Duma may try to blame it on homosexuals as well, and try to criminalize sodomy again or something.

 

i've never been a huge fan of russia so i am not surprised. They've caused some damage to my country (bulgaria) and in fact i place russia as #2 as the countries that have caused most damage to bulgaria historically. Number one is Turkey.
I can also place Mongolia as #3 but then again considering the historical connection between bulgaria and mongolia i think that's kind of contradictory. Sure...america and england have also "played their part" by bombing sofia (bulgarian capitol) during ww2 - but compare this to what the russians have done to the country and the american/english devastation seems like a walk in the part then.

So anyway - a bit off topic...so it's hard to say what needs to be done in russia, they need to remove putin from power for starters, which seems impossible.