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General News This is an astonishingly good Iran deal

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Aldrick, Apr 3, 2015.

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  1. Aldrick

    Aldrick
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    Read the full article here.
     
    #1 Aldrick, Apr 3, 2015
  2. Quem

    Quem
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    #2 Quem, Apr 3, 2015
  3. dano218

    dano218
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    I think it is great that a deal was made however we should make sure Israel remains safe as the a result. Israel is a greatest ally and friend in the Middle East and we absolutely cannot abandon them.
     
    #3 dano218, Apr 3, 2015
  4. Quem

    Quem
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    I'm not that much in favour of trying to have Israel as an ally, actually. Besides, there's been quite more tension between the U.S. and Israel actually:

    The Hill - Obama calls to congratulate Netanyahu

     
    #4 Quem, Apr 3, 2015
  5. WeirdnessMagnet

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    That's very good news! But the headline... It's almost "One weird trick for getting arms control deals. Congressional hawks hate him!"
     
    #5 WeirdnessMagnet, Apr 3, 2015
  6. Aldrick

    Aldrick
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    I am not overly worried about Israel. Why? Because Iran will never attack them. They may fund groups that attack them, but they will never attack them directly. Israel has nukes of its own--many more than Iran--and if Iran sent a nuke at them it would be mutually assured destruction. Iran would cease to exist, and the land which once held its state would be a radioactive graveyard. It would literally be the end of their nation and the death of all their people.

    Even if Israel lacked the ability to retaliate, the United States would.

    There is literally zero benefit in Iran getting a nuclear weapon. The benefit to Iran has always been being close enough where they could easily get one if they wanted one, but never actually getting one which they know would cause an arms race AGAINST them from Sunni Muslim Countries. Take a look at this map. Now ask yourself: If you were Iran, surrounded as you are here, would you want those nations with such high Sunni populations all around you to get nukes which they would all point at you?

    This is one of the reasons I believe Iran rolled over so easily. The nuclear program was mostly for national pride. They want a way to save face so it does not look like they are bowing to the international community. Their primary goal is to get the sanctions that Obama fought to have placed on them removed. That is their primary goal.

    Their secondary goal is that they want the freedom to continue to pursue their geo-political agenda in the Middle East. I am willing to support that for the following reasons. First, all of the terrorists we are fighting are mostly break away Wahhabi's, a sect of Sunni Islam. Most of this is Saudi Arabia's fault. Saudi Arabia is not going to be a stable government in the long term, and is likely to collapse into civil war within the next fifty years or sooner. The real fight is not between the terrorists and the West, it is a fight among Muslims, particularly Sunni Muslims, to define Islam. At some point ISIS or a group like them is going to decide that they want to seize the Holy Land, and the Saudi Royal Family is going to be seen as too cozy with Israel and the West. Thus, the potential for the regime to be overthrown and a civil war to break out.

    Iran on the other hand, while also bad, has a strong secular element within its society that is favorable to the West. We can cultivate that, and help them reform Iran from within.

    Meanwhile, we can support independence for the Kurds and break up Iraq. This gives us another ally in the Middle East, and a counter balance to Iran if necessary.

    The more Iran flexes its Shia muscles, the more the terrorists will focus on them rather than us. The whole ISIS mess becomes Iran's problem, and Iran can be used to create some stability in the region.

    When it comes to Israel, most of their problems are self-inflicted. If they would actually engage in an honest peace process a lot of the hostilities that they have with Iran could be sorted out diplomatically. In fact, including Iran at the table for peace talks could be helpful, if as a condition of peace with the Palestinians and the establishment of a Palestinian state Iran decides to recognize Israel's right to exist... everyone walks away a winner. Iran can go home and say that they helped the Palestinians form a state, and stood up against Zionism, the Israelis will have peace, and the Palestinians will have a state.

    Israel won't do this, though, because of Israeli hardliners. So instead they have decided to stupidly doom themselves into eventually becoming an apartheid state, which in turn dooms the Jewish state, which in turn kills one of the more secular nations in that region of the world. Stupidity compounded by more stupidity.
     
    #6 Aldrick, Apr 3, 2015
  7. dano218

    dano218
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    Agreed. I do think though since Israel is one of greatest allies that we need to be on good terms with them. Who is the country in the middle east that stood by us through all the chaos that is Israel.
     
    #7 dano218, Apr 3, 2015
  8. BryanM

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    I'm glad that a deal was able to be reached, and it looks like a good one. Also, I could not care less what Bibi Netanyahu thinks of this deal, especially when 50 years down the road this deal will be looked on as a huge success.
     
    #8 BryanM, Apr 3, 2015
  9. Aldrick

    Aldrick
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    Let's not pretend that Israel stands by us and is our "greatest ally" out of anything more than necessity for them. They need the United States far more than the United States needs Israel, it is a rather lopsided arrangement that is heavily in their favor.

    This in turn puts us in difficult situations and limits our negotiating ability, and the longer the Israeli / Palestinian Crisis goes on, the worse it gets for us.

    This is the reason it is so insulting when Bibi Netanyahu attacks our President, and does things to undermine our strategic objectives--which align with the long term interest of the Israelis. Forcing them to negotiate with the Palestinians, bringing Iran to the table and back into the international community where they can be better controlled, all of this is to the benefit of Israel.

    The sad fact is that, at this point, I don't think the majority of Israeli's want peace. This puts them at fundamental odds with the United States, perhaps irreconcilably.
     
    #9 Aldrick, Apr 3, 2015
  10. dano218

    dano218
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    Israel and Prime Minister Netanyahu has done nothing to disrespect the president. He has every right to voice his concerns and many of people in both republican and democrat parties are on Israel's side. We are not bigger and better than Israel and any other nation and it is best not to act like it. I respect Netanyahu more than any prime minister i have ever learned about and he is states his agreements and disagreements with nothing but respect for our country. I think Israel wants peace just as any other country and I pray in my lifetime peace will come for all. Also it was Iran that wanted to wipe Israel off the map so I cannot blame Netanyahu for being critical of any deal.
     
    #10 dano218, Apr 3, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
  11. BryanM

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    Trying to sabotage a nuclear deal with Iran (Not just try to move a deal more in Israel's favour, completely try to DESTROY IT) doesn't amount to disrespect? [YOUTUBE]0RFirEZPZ_w[/YOUTUBE]
     
    #11 BryanM, Apr 3, 2015
  12. dano218

    dano218
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    No I think Netanyahu has every right to be paranoid and critical of any deal and although I may agree with the deal I can understand Netanyahu wanting to sabotage it. Why in any right mind would we want to trust Iran anyway. Of course I hope the deal works anyway but I would consider even electing Netanyahu president of the US over Obama at this point. I like the guy and his speeches.

    ---------- Post added 3rd Apr 2015 at 06:43 PM ----------

    Netanyahu says Iran must accept Israel's existence

    Netanyahu means well I think.
     
    #12 dano218, Apr 3, 2015
  13. QueerTransEnby

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    This deal means nothing. Iran still will keep all of its facilities open. *Yawn*.
     
    #13 QueerTransEnby, Apr 3, 2015
  14. dano218

    dano218
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    I recently saw a speech by the leader of Iran and he looks like a total phony. Iran whatsoever cannot be trusted.
     
    #14 dano218, Apr 4, 2015
  15. Kaiser

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    I've always found the whole "nuclear weapons" situation tragically hilarious.

    Side A: You can't have them!
    Side B: Why not?
    Side A: You cannot be trusted with them.
    Side B: We don't trust you, and you have them.
    Side A: Yeah, well, we got them, and you can't have them.
    Side B: We want a means to protect our interests, just as you do.
    Side A: You would use them in a way that we do not approve of.
    Side B: And you use them as a deterrent in ways that we do not approve of.
    Side A: We've been proven to be responsible and safe with ours.
    Side B: If you hate them so much, why don't you get rid of yours?
    Side A: We cannot, just in case somebody else obtains them.
    Side B: Why don't you get rid of yours, so the threat of nuclear war is eliminated?
    Side A: Damn it, Side B, just do as we say and not as we do!
     
    #15 Kaiser, Apr 4, 2015
  16. dano218

    dano218
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    There is incredible theory about this too and I am starting to believe it. Democratic Sen. Bob Menendez the former ranking democrat on the Foriegn Relations Committee has been a staunch opponent of a deal with Iran therefore the government developed a false indictment against him to punish him for his opposition. Could be a theory or the real truth of how desperate this administration is to avoid congress.
     
    #16 dano218, Apr 4, 2015
  17. CyclingFan

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    I gotta say is be pretty tempted to, if I were a leader in Iran. Unless something changes, the GOP has made it crystal clear that there's no proof that will satisfy them and that they want to invade.

    In that environment, I'd build some nukes too.
     
    #17 CyclingFan, Apr 4, 2015
  18. Some Dude

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    That is an completely idiotic conspiracy whos only purpose is to slander the president and his administration.

    Here's articles from both the left and the right on how the conspiracy is ridiculous

    The Menendez-Obama-Iran-Cuba conspiracy theory doesn’t make any sense - The Washington Post

    Why Robert Menendez was indicted for bribery -- and it
     
    #18 Some Dude, Apr 4, 2015
  19. dano218

    dano218
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    lol i know but I had to mention it. I read those articles already! I think Menendez is innocent btw.
     
    #19 dano218, Apr 4, 2015
  20. LiquidSwords

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    So the correct options are either let anybody develop nukes, or the west disarms to leave russia/pakistan as nuclear powers? Not sold on it
     
    #20 LiquidSwords, Apr 4, 2015
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