General News Thoughts on Walter L. Scott shooting?

This is one video in a particular case, not an institutional change. I doubt the next few dozen police shootings will have the same justice in response to the shooter's actions.

Police need to be held accountable so much more. They need to be held responsible for shootings and have independent investigations for every single body they're responsible for putting into the ground. There is no middle ground (you say it as if the police had a right to shoot to kill so frequently, as if police are supposed to be an opposing faction to America's general public) while police are able to get away with murder.

 

What needs to happen is that American peace officers need to wear cameras on their person like many (if not all) British peace officers do.

This does two things that are extremely important:

1. It protects the public by getting rid of the "citizen's word versus police officer's word" element to excessive force claims.

2. It protects peace officers against false allegations of unprofessionalism or excessive force, because it's always possible to replay the entire engagement.

Also, we're absolutely never going to fix our police departments until we fix our juries.

~ Adrienne

 

How exactly is it extreme? It's a fairly strong move, but why do regular police need guns that badly?

I'm fine with police carrying guns as long as they're put to manslaughter or murder trials as easily as others are if they can't prove necessity.

 

I think the first thing America needs to do is admit that their police forces have a problem and I don't think they will. There will be a bit of hand wringing and maybe you'll see body cameras come in, but in the minds of a lot of people this will just be another isolated incident carried out by a bad apple that definitely doesn't have any racial element.

By all means throw the book at the officer in question, but there's plenty more where he came from and this will keep happening until they're dealt with.

 

I definitely think body cameras should be used more than they are now. It just so happens someone was filming this. But if no one had filmed this, would there have been any arrest? I doubt it. The video was the key to the arrest and the arrest is what makes this police shooting different than the others--no arrests were made in the others that have become this famous recently, not right away at least.

I don't know if race was a factor. It might not have been at all. But definitely we have a case of another trigger-happy police officer...and he won't get away with murder.

 

In my opinion the possession of a gun should not be legal or at least heavily regulated. Then basic police officers would have no need to carry a firearm, which is what the situation is like in the UK. Only in the case of tactical teams and special circumstances should officers need to possess a firearm.

 

Not military but police who are specifically trained to enter hostile and potentially dangerous situations are the only people that should possess firearms. The average Police officer that you find on the street is not armed in the UK and if possession of a firearm was illegal in the US like it is here, there would be no need for police walking the street to be armed.

 

Plenty of other cases had cameras and it didn't mean squat, so cameras are hopefully a good step, but not sufficient. We got a cop on camera killing a 12 yr old kid, Tamir Rice, and no justice. We got a cop using a hold that was specifically banned from use by his department due to its risk of fatality, killing a guy, Eric Garner, on camera, and no justice.

Agreed we aren't going to get anywhere until we fix our juries. But we aren't going to fix our juries until sufficient numbers of white Americans honestly confront the institutional racism that is woven into our society. We have a large number of people who are rigidly authoritarian in their outlook and that is poisoning our democratic society.

This is a fascinating tipping point though, if it happens. It's interesting to see just what is "too much" for our defenders of "law and order". I don't even think it was the bullets to the back that did it, and if he'd dropped that taser as part of pretending to check his pulse this would be the same as the rest.

 

I have my issues with the police. I know some good folks wear the badge, and some not so good folks do too. It's like the lottery, you may encounter the asshole more often, but it is possible to find the good one.

It's easy for us to say what we'd do, after the fact, or from a distance. We don't have to take into account mental and emotional state, the sequence of events, and so on. We can look at it as an absolute one way or the other, because we don't have the whole experience to go by. If you threw us into that exact situation, I'd be interested to know, what others would do.

It doesn't justify it, but it does help explain it.

That said, I do think police officers need to be held accountable, like the public is. If you're going to serve and protect the public, you may as well be judged like them too. After all, my taxes contribute to your paycheck, and I like to know my money is being used wisely.

Spoiler

The United States is more of a gun culture nation, though. You have the hardliners who love their guns and the conspiracy nuts who, honestly, would take any attempt to confiscate their firearms as their moment, their rallying cry. Even those who don't own guns would be a little suspicious as to this sudden turn of events, and why it was happening.

Assuming the majority of the nation complies, good luck getting lawbreakers to turn theirs in. We can pull up figures on legally registered firearms, but that's the thing -- they're the legally known ones. We haven't touched upon the black market.

It would take decades to stamp out civilian firearm ownership. And do you think criminals are going to pass up this golden opportunity? They'll keep their guns, and know they have an advantage. The bulk of people who would benefit from that kind of action, would be those who do not comply to it. The law-abiding citizen would be put at a disadvantage, as well as common police officers.

If this were anywhere else, maybe. But guns are one thing that America won't let go of easily, because many folks believe, even if they don't own them, that they play a vital role in keeping us safe from big government or hoodlums.

Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, well, it depends whom you ask.

 

In the us, many departments have "SWAT" teams, which is an acronym for "special weapons and tactics". These grew out of a need for more firepower for extraordinary events, which were increasing in the 70s, especially since your standard patrol mans or deputy's firearm was a 6 shot revolver. The idea was to deploy these teams when needed for hostage situations etc.

 

Due to it being logistically difficult to make the possession of a firearm illegal would it at least be a step in the right direction to impose stricter limitations and regulations? The statistics for gun related crimes by country speak for themselves. I don't wish to upset anyone who is in support of the current legality of firearm possession, this is just the opinion of a citizen of a country that does not allow the majority of people to posses weaponry.

Cyclingfan, the only people allowed to carry guns in the UK are usually SWAT-like firearms teams and tactical teams. Our police officers do carry items for protection such as batons, tasers or sprays intended to subdue but not harm a possible threat.

 

Well, of course if you happen to find a "good one" that you're better off. And maybe the percentage of "bad ones" is pretty low. But when you're part of a population that has more interactions with police, for reasons that have nothing to do with your criminality, then that alone will make your interactions with bad cops increase to levels that most people would find intolerable.

 

The facts of this case are shocking, but typical in America. If you watch the video, the officer planted the Taser next to the body. The day after the shooting, the North Charleston Police Department announced that he'd been cleared of all wrongdoing, and would be back on the force. That is, until the video came out, at which time he was charged with murder.

There are a number of things that need to happen in order to rein in police violence and stop these killings. In my opinion, this is how you nip this in the bud:

1. Police unions need to be dismantled. While I am a big union supporter myself, police unions only serve to keep murderers and bullies on the force. The St. Louis Police Union called for the NFL to suspend three Rams players who held up the Hands Up Don't Shoot sign before a game because they dared say that a murderer should be punished.

2. Body cameras must be mandatory, and not optional, and the video must be stored by a third-party, not the police department. This way there's no "I accidentally-on-purpose turned my camera off or deleted the video."

3. Complaints of excessive force must be investigated by a third-party agency. Police departments cannot be trusted to run unbiased investigations for the same reason that we don't allow convicted felons to serve on juries.

4. Make the crime of a law enforcement officer killing an unarmed civilian a capital offense in states that have the death penalty, and start using it. This kind of lawlessness must not be tolerated and must be punished swiftly and severely. This sends a message to every cop in America: Do your job the right way. If you're not killing unarmed civilians, you've got nothing to worry about. But if you do, our message is very simple: You will not get away with it anymore. You will be arrested, you will go to prison

5. Have a comprehensive review of the disciplinary files of every law enforcement officer in America. Those with excessive excessive force complains must be fired.

The other part of the problem in America with police shootings is that far too many of those on the right wing put these officers on a pedestal. George Zimmerman, Darren Wilson, Daniel Pantaleo, and now Michael Slager have all become right-wing heroes after they murdered African American men in cold blood, even despite the video of two of those incidents. Daniel Pantaleo had absolutely no business even approaching Eric Garner, much less strangling him to death. Michael Slager fired 7 shots at an unarmed man, and then an eighth just for good measure as he was falling to the ground, and now conservatives have put up a GoFundMe page in support of this murderer.

Cops all across America are mowing down innocent, unarmed civilians, and the fact that anyone has the gall to start screaming, "Police lives matter" and "Thin blue line" is despicable. And until we as a society do something about it, people are going to keep getting killed.