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General News Lincoln Chafee exploring a run for president

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by dano218, Apr 10, 2015.

  1. dano218

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    Chafee launches 2016 exploratory committee, goes after Clinton on Iraq - CNN.com

    I found this announcement to be very interesting. As much as I respect Hillary and wouldn't mind her as president I think we need a competitive democratic primary with tons of different ideas. I hate the idea of having a non competitive primary but it looks like Hilary has the majority support. Lincoln Chafee raises a good point though that Hillary voted for the Irag War when Chafee a Republican at the time voted against it. That makes for a very strong argument. I'll give this guy a chance despite his change of party affiliation.
     
  2. Some Dude

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    This isn't 2004, campaigning on the Iraq war won't be a great strategy. He's also just a one term senator(who basically got the job because his dad had it before him) and a one term very unpopular governor(note the 25% approval rating).
     
  3. dano218

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    Yeah thats true but I think there should some alternatives to Hillary Clinton. As much as I like Clinton and would vote for her I want a competitive democratic primary with tons of different ideas for moving the country forward. I would even consider having Jim Webb or Martin O'Malley as president. Sadly most people though are fixed on Clinton and nothing else matters. Have just one primary candidate can be a very bad thing with much of the focus and criticism aimed at one person in the democatic party. Unlike the Republicans who have tons of potential contenders which I would prefer in a primary.
     
  4. Some Dude

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    I completely agree that we need alternatives to Clinton, I just don't think Chafee is the answer. I wish we had tons of contenders as well. I'll be hopefully voting for O'Malley since he is really the only liberal running(well unless you count sanders). O'Malley has done a pretty good job in Maryland and Baltimore. I think he can manage to gain a lot of the Warren supporters once they realize that she isn't going to run.
     
  5. dano218

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    Well Said. As much enthusiasm there is for Clinton I like competitive primaries I really do.
     
  6. BryanM

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    I'm glad to see someone is going to be running against Hillary in the Democratic Primary. It'll definitely help her out, especially since she'll need to go to the left to win the primaries.
     
  7. AwesomGaytheist

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    No, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO!

    A primary challenge only weakens the the presumptive nominee for that very reason: it forces her to move to the left. A primary results in the Democrats throwing dirt at each other, which sticks in swing voters' minds when it comes to the general election. It drains your frontrunner's resources fighting off a primary challenge, which leaves them more vulnerable in the the general election. If the top Democratic Party officials were smart, they'd clear the field, ignore the professional left that wouldn't even be satisfied if George McGovern won the Presidency, and just let the GOP primary clown show play out.

    One of the biggest factors that doomed Mitt Romney in 2012 was the prolonged SNL episode that the Republican primary turned into. Jimmy Carter was doomed in 1980 when Ted Kennedy challenged Carter in the primary, which lost him all the liberals that would have held their noses and voted for him. When you have less opportunities for gaffes and campaign missteps, you're better off in the general. Elizabeth Warren needs to stay on the sidelines, same with Jim Webb, Lincoln Chafee (Who's not even a Democrat to begin with), and anybody else that's thinking about running. The rest of the party needs to realize that there's never going to be a candidate you agree with 100% of the time, stop complaining, and unite behind Hillary. When a party is fractured, that is a guaranteed way to lose an election. It's difficult enough to win three in a row, so let's not make it any harder.

    United we win, divided we lose, and we can't afford to lose.
     
  8. BryanM

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    Obama survived a primary (and even beat the favorite Clinton) and handled himself pretty well in the general election vs. McCain. Not everyone has Hillary as their first choice, and that's the entire reason behind a primary selection, it isn't to just fast-track someone without having other choices and say they're your candidate. If Hillary runs unopposed, that'll have someone like a Ralph Nader run since liberal Democrats didn't have a better option, and take all of the liberal votes and make it a much, much closer race. Imagine if the end up renaming it The Sanders Effect. Hillary's a grown up, and she should most likely handle the primary without any gaffes. Not having a true primary will definitely split the party, except if that happens, many liberals will vote for someone else unless Hillary proves to them she's not a conservative Democrat.
     
  9. dano218

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    That was well said. Primary or not my next question is what makes Hilary so great than? Not that I have any dislike for her.

    ---------- Post added 10th Apr 2015 at 01:08 PM ----------


    This is a good point. I think the demographics are so divided that a big primary or not the demographics will still help Hilary win. Especially if Ted Cruz or another far right candidate wins the nomination it will only help Hilary. I think Jeb Bush is Hillary's greatest threat in all honesty.
     
  10. AwesomGaytheist

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    That's the whole point. When a party is united, it has a much better shot at winning than if you have a bloody primary which splits the party and turns off swing voters. Primary challenges have never helped the frontrunner.
     
  11. Aussie792

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    Political coronations feel (and are) less legitimate than allowing an open race, even with a clear front-runner, especially when that preferred candidate is so well-connected and has been around for so long. Clinton could also take the chance before the general election to expand on her views for the entire public's benefit, views which are surprisingly opaque given her supremacy within the Democratic non-race.

    She's an adept politician. She can handle a primary. In doing so, she might just start getting her message across sooner than she would if she waited to go up against the Republicans. If that message is too weak to handle her own party in the first place, then giving her an unopposed run isn't going to strengthen it.
     
  12. HuskyPup

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    I wish Elizabeth Warren or Martin O'Malley was the frontrunner, and Hillary had decided not to run...I'll vote for her, but not with a whole lot of enthusiasm. Then again, I'll vote for any Democrat, as it's key to keeping the Supreme Court from getting any worse, and hopefully helping it improve. But a Bush-Clinton race is gonna seem so boring, that I imagine it could impact turnout, and given the anger among the right, this could be worse for Democrats.

    Hillary really needs to get out there, and start a powerful narrative; so far, the Republicans are stealing the show, and she's just kinda on the back-burner. I'm eager to hear her official announcement Sunday...she very much needs to start energizing people. Among my friends, all Democrats, and all of whom have voted in at least the past 3 or 4 presidential elections, I don't think I've yet seen such anemic support. Hillary seemed to have run out of steam some years ago; I'm not sure why, but there isn't a whole lot of excitement surrounding her, even here in a liberal state.

    Maybe the VP choice will help?
     
    #12 HuskyPup, Apr 10, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2015
  13. dano218

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    For some reason I think any candidate other than Bush can be defeated by Hillary. I just think Bush with his connections to Florida would cause a possible defeat for Hillary. IT would be a tough election with Bush and Clinton on the ballot and actually some people might not show up at the polls because they are over family dynasties in politics.
     
  14. Some Dude

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    I think it's ridiculous to try and hold other candidates back because the party needs to be "United". I think Hilary should be able to handle herself in an election. The idea that we should all just immediately through our support behind her because she is a democrat is just plain stupid. I think a lot of us want someone who is going to make real change and happen rather than just maintaining the status quo. Not having a real primary and just going along with the party establishment is completely undemocratic.
     
  15. HuskyPup

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    I also think Bush would be the hardest candidate to beat, given Florida...but I think it can be done. Rand Paul has had a horrible first week, and has come off looking like a short-tempered brat who can't take the heat when interviewed; Ted Cruz is far to wacky; Chris Christie is over and done...hard to say who the biggest competition to Bush will be. Maybe Walker? I can't see Santorum or Huckabee going far. Maybe Rubio?

    Though the thought of having to endure a third Bush brings tears to my eyes! :tears:
     
  16. Some Dude

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    I honestly think Walker will win the republican primary, if not him Rubio. I don't think Bush will be able to escape his families name and his stances on things like immigration and education will hurt him in the republican primary
     
  17. dano218

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    I totally agree with this point also. Republicans will be enough of a self destruction to themselves that I don't honestly think a competitive primary for democrats will destroy them. I really would have to proven wrong in the election to really believe it has any affect on the race. I honestly love the intensity of competition and watching the fight for the nomination and I just don't wanna boring fight lol.
     
  18. Austin

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    Part of a good democracy is competitive elections...
     
  19. dano218

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    Another thing democrats need to stop doing in all honestly is their "war on women" campaigns. Yeah it helps to a certain extent but in all reality when there are a such ting as pro-life women it makes the the whole "war on women" unrealistic. My grandma cried for a few weeks after Roe vs. Wade and that is the only real reason she is a republican is because of that. I think we need to learn the lessons of 2014 and stop this stupid strategy. I am sick of hearing about that topic every day. Mark Udall got beated out of office for doing the exact same thing relying on pro abortion women and not putting up a big fight.
     
  20. Aldrick

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    Really, I honestly don't know anyone who doesn't think Hillary isn't going to win. Most people getting into the race, with the exception of O'Malley, are there to push the issues. O'Malley is there in case Hillary trips and falls. Sanders is in the race to challenge Hillary on the economic issues (from the left), and Chafee is getting in the race to challenge Hillary on foreign policy (from the left). However, I do not necessarily think those challenges will hurt her because the Democratic Party is a very centrist party. They will never, for example, put a Sanders on the ticket. Hillary's VP pick will likely either be Webb, Kaine, or Mark Warner -- all in hopes of scoring points in Virginia. If O'Malley shifts hard to the left and becomes popular during the primary, he might be able to grab the VP seat.

    It is going to be hard for the Democrats to win a third term, and most everyone thinks that Hillary is the safest bet to do it.

    I disagree with AwesomGaytheist, and I do not believe a primary will hurt Hillary. The reason being that there really is no one in the primary who is qualified to challenge her or take her place. Biden might fit that bill if he still intends to run, but no one really thinks he can win the General Election. The Carter and Kennedy analysis is flawed, because Kennedy was a serious challenger to Carter. He had a roughly equal level of name recognition and a ground swell of support. A more accurate analogy could be made if it was Elizabeth Warren.

    I believe a primary would be helpful to Hillary, in that she has the ability to suck the oxygen out of the media. Everything she does will overshadow the Republicans. The debates and the like give her a platform to outline where she stands, and to go on the offensive against the Republicans hard and early. This is how Hillary wins over liberals and energizes the base: by throwing as much anti-Republican red meat to the base that she can muster. It's not even about issues, really, if she shows that she is willing to do the things Obama wouldn't do--the things liberals hungered for him to do--then she has won over the left. Other than that she only really needs to put a few more concerns to rest, which she can quickly do:

    1. She needs to counteract her image as a war hawk. She doesn't need to go full-dove, but she does have to prove that she isn't going to pull a John McCain and "Bomb-Bomb-Bomb Iran." She can do this by doubling down on Obama's Iran Nuclear deal, which she will be forced to defend anyway, and pushing back against Bibi in Israel. She can show toughness by going after Putin and Russia, and also bringing up how Russia is treating gay people as a human rights crime.

    2. She needs to counteract her image as being too close to Wall Street and Corporate America. This is a reassurance to the Elizabeth Warren wing of the party. She can do this by highlighting the things like how she will defend Dodd-Frank, and then pivot to talk about the poor and middle class families. She can talk about the policies she wants to implement should she become President that will be designed to help them, such as raising the minimum wage.

    3. She needs to prove that she can fight. This is super easy for her, because Hillary loves a fight. This is where she is the most different from Obama. As I said previously, if she throws red meat to the base by going hard and brutal against Republicans, the base will love her no matter what policies that she puts forward. Obama has always been too nice for his own good, but Hillary ain't afraid to cut a bitch. Give her the knife, let her do her thing, and she'll be alright.

    If Hilary does these three things, then the entire Democratic Party will be energized and stand behind her. Outside of this, Hillary will still have to answer the questions any Democratic Nominee coming after another Democratic President would have to answer. However, these are not really hurtles for her to win the nomination, and are more general election concerns.

    It is very important that Hillary be seen as the legitimate nominee of the Democratic Party. Not someone who was put in place through coronation. She is not a President running for a second term. She has to actually earn her right to be the nominee, and win over those who are not enthusiastic about supporting her.

    Outside of this, it should be the mission of every Democrat to find a way to sink Jeb Bush's chances at becoming the Republican nominee. He is the biggest threat to Hillary. It would be awesome if the Republican Primary opened up the split between the wealthy Republican Elites and their crazy lunatic base. This would either send Jeb down in flames, or alternatively, send him into the general election as damaged goods.