LGBT News Gay men spat on by fellow refugees in center.

Having a hard time seeing a difference between the bigotry these refugees displayed and the bigotry you've displayed in this post.

 

So...you might as well throw out the entire populations of any state that has even one person act homophobic.

 

Rejecting the homophobic refugees entirely does nothing to address their homophobia nor anything for LGBT people in their home countries when and if they return.

Outlining punishment and education would be fine, but saying they deserve to be returned to conditions far worse than even the worst of European legal punishments is not something I would even begin to consider.

And think of how many Europeans spit on and attack gay people. We can get a full list of hate crimes that have occurred in the past year in the Netherlands, I am sure. Compare the punishment those criminals would have received with what you propose to do to these men. The latter is so severe I'm not sure you've quite thought through what you're actually saying. At least I hope you haven't.

 

I'm sure we'd all be even more sorry to see hundreds of thousands of Syrians slaughtered by Assad and ISIL as well. Why not try education of Syrian refugees on LGBTQ people instead of the deportation of all Syrians running away from utter demise?

 

That's not a fact.. it's a lie.

 

While I agree that this is an awful way to behave, if they are to be sent back it would likely be to their death. I don't care how racist or homophobic or whatever someone is, bigotry does not equate to a person deserving to die. If they're going to live in Europe then they will have to learn that this is an unacceptable way to behave, but it certainly doesn't warrant death.

 

I think they need to be reminded that gays are running away from ISIS for the same exact reason they are.

 

Well, Sweden's immigration policy has definitely led to major problems in that country, social and economic. Too many allowed in too quickly? That appears to be the case. There's no denying that. I'm not sure Sweden and Germany or even the UK can absorb/support many more immigrants. Canada and the US definitely can in my opinion.

If our standard of living slips a bit in Canada due to helping desperate refugees, I think we should be willing to do so. We have so much. Can each household live on $1,000- $2,000 less per year in order to support refugees? I think so... if we stop spending money foolishly.

 

You said two things. One was the false claim that Sweden as "never, ever" had major crime issue prior to the refugee crisis. The other was the rather nasty comment that the Dutch government should send refugees back to where they come from instead of disciplining them as they would anyone else in the Netherlands.

Being criticised for those comments is not at all unreasonable, I think. You can say that crime has increased all you like and I doubt I'd disagree with that. But your idea of how to remedy that and your diagnosis of how the problem has gone wrong is just not something I can support. Instead of noting the Swedish government's terrible integration policies that have been pursued (leading to Malmö's segregation problem, for example), or many European countries' laws which prohibit refugees from working, you jump straight from the presence of refugees to the violence, instead of asking what went wrong in policy or the implementation of policy.

You proposed a solution from anger that would be totally disproportionate to the acts in question and your facts exist without a great deal of context. In light of that and the fact that nobody has come near to "bashing you for stating facts", I would hope that you'd revise your position.

 

Why are Canada and the US able to adsorb more immigrants when both countries have considerably more immigrants as a % of their population? Do you not think immigration in your own country is a problem? Though I do agree that both should be doing a lot more to ease pressure off Europe. The diaspora of Syrians isn't going to disappear overnight.

You can't just attach 'fact' onto anything you want, you know.

Even if crime has increased as a result of refugees, that's not a compelling enough reason to ignore them. The West has an obligation to provide help to these people - ignoring our fellow human in times of need reflects negatively on us. Just imagine what would have happened if places like the UK and the US said no to Jewish refugees in WW2 - and in fact newspapers like the Daily Mail were against it at the time. Ditto Bosnians escaping war and persecution. Both groups of people now form integral parts of British society after decades of successful integration.

 

RemakeJake, I'm not bashing you. I conceded that the great influx of immigrants in Sweden in a short span of time has led to problems there. That is a fact.

If you do not put immigrants into ghetto-like conditions and find them jobs, they can be a great asset to the country.

I do not agree that more refugees will always bring more crime. In Canada this has only been the case with people from a certain country used to violence which I will not name because not all people from that country are violent. However, we do regret bringing in people from that country because of the gangs they have formed and the very high rate of crime in the neighbourhoods they've settled in. This is the exception, not the rule though.

---------- Post added 6th Dec 2015 at 12:14 AM ----------

I do not think immigration is a problem in Canada. We need more immigrants to help grow our economy. Also, immigrants tend to do well here because we value their cultures. Canada is a mosaic, not a melting pot, meaning we encourage them to keep their own culture and add it to the fabric of our society. I should have said integrate instead of absorb earlier.

One reason North America can handle more immigrants than Europe is SPACE. Canada has so much space... vast uninhabited regions, small cities with lots of room to grow, rural areas that are still all white. I last visited Europe in the early 90's, and it was so crowded then already. How can you all get along if you're squished together like sardines in a tin can?

 

Canada and the US do have lots of space, but as a rule Americans are more wary of immigrants (and I understand the irony, considering that its a nation of immigrants). In recent times however I believe that this is a result of having such a large scale of illegal immigrants. With the elections approaching, a heavy topic is going to be the most effective form to keep the illegals out, and since the public's mind is on keeping them out, not many of them want to bring people in.

On a side note, the US does welcome in tens of thousands (60 to 80) every year.

 

I'll never stop being disgusted by bigotry, but I am always more disgusted when it comes from someone in a group that itself suffers under bigotry in our society.

These "facts" are right out of far right hate group propaganda. Furthermore, they're right out of the same bigot script that has been trotted out historically against every group of immigrants to the USA. I don't know what your background is, OP, but it's extremely likely that your family faced the same racist, know-nothing hatred that you're posting here.

---------- Post added 6th Dec 2015 at 11:45 AM ----------

Naw, it's not cause we have "illegal immigrants". It's cause the USA is still quite a racist place.

Blaming immigrants for the racism of others is just backwards. It's exactly the same as saying that gay bashing is the fault of homosexuals.

---------- Post added 6th Dec 2015 at 11:47 AM ----------

The USA actually has a moral obligation to take in these refugees. We destabilized the entire region with our dumb war in Iraq. Without that, there would be no Isis and with no isis no refugee crisis.

 

Sweden is the worst country in the first world at integrating immigrants, especially the ones without proper education. The mix of poor education, lack of language proficiency and social ties with ethnic Swedes makes for a vicious cycle that leads to years without any job.

Despite the shitty rhetorics against immigrants and refugees, the UK and US are significantly better at integrating them into the workforce.

link: Assessing Immigrant Integration in Sweden after the May 2013 Riots | migrationpolicy.org
Check section "Particular Challenges for Sweden's Immigrant Population."

 

I don't doubt that there will be many homophobic refugees, they come from pretty homophobic culture.

But I think when you have a situation where refugees are receiving support from, and effectively at the mercy of liberal states, it is a good opportunity to have a conversation with them to discuss gay rights, tackling it early and whilst people are together.

We must say, "this is what we stand for, this is what we value so you need to embrace that". We also need to point out the hypocrisy there, that these people are fleeing oppressive and dangerous regimes yet themselves are creating the same for a minority. It is an education piece that has to be had, for the sake of both gay refugees and residents alike.

 

actually i experience that at first hand here in syria every boy in my neighborhood hates me and throws rocks at me and spit on me and once they throw a very big rock if i didn't move so fast i would have been in the hospital i get called names and even older men laugh when they see this mumbling mean words they don't teach their teens to ever stop cause to them i'm worthless
i even go very early at the bus stop so i wont get hurt and i don't have to face anyone from hood
its fucking crazy how homophobic people are from the middle east
its something that is very hard to fix
imagine a dad teaching his son that hitting a guy who is femme is the right thing to do yes that's exactly what happens in our country
hell my own family talks about me makes fun of me and bully me to my face about being both bad things gay and femme