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LGBT News Call to remove gender from (uk) passports and driving licences

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Michael, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. Michael

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  2. Secrets5

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    On one hand I'm really, really happy, but on the other I really wish to have just one passport to have Mx or X [or whatever it is] on it. Maybe I could make myself a fake one :slight_smile: .

    If gender is unimportant to a legal extent, then why don't we just remove sex from birth certificates? That way, only the gender known to those who need to know when growing up is taken before the sex of a baby who can't say what their gender is.
     
    #2 Secrets5, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  3. 741852963

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    I think this is a bit silly and an overreaction to be honest.

    Whilst of course gender can be a confusing issue for those who are trans, non-binary, genderqueer etc, for the vast majority of people gender is still something that is followed.

    We still by and large have gender specific names (i.e. you don't find many women called Steve or men called Daisy) and it is still a valid identifier in most instances. If I was directing someone to a person who could help I'd more than likely go "the lady over there" or "that man standing up in the corner". I wouldn't go "the person stood up" (unless I was referring to a stranger who was more say, ambiguous).

    And I do think sex should be included on passports/birth certificates. Given they are used as ID and for our security I'd really hope the record would be as thorough as possible. A sex indicator is another marker to identify someone by. Lets say we were trying to find a criminal or needed to keep a lookout for someone (say a missing persons advert), knowing their sex can be vastly helpful in narrowing down or focussing on finding them. "Getting rid of the gender binary" might be a popular thought amongst queer theorists, but back in the real world gender is very much something that exists and is followed, and in 99.9% of cases people are able to differentiate between biologically male and female cis people, and do so. Yes you have a very small minority who are androgynous in some way, but again, the vast majority operates differently.
     
    #3 741852963, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  4. Par

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    I think this is the wrong attitude really. The solution to gender inequality isn't to avoid talking about gender. Non-binary people don't want to remove gender - they want their gender to be recognised.
     
  5. Kinky

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    :rolle:
     
  6. Michael

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    You could also say that religion, and even your political ideas should be included on a passport...

    No, let's get real : You want to identify someone, then DNA data would work much better. You think someone could afford all the surgeries, and etc, and probably have a perfectly fake passport as well...

    This is not about criminals, and not about what you call genderqueers, it's about men or women who simply don't want their sex included on passports and on birth certificates for whatever reason. As you nicely pointed out there is not many men called 'Daisy' or women called 'Steve'. Why do you need then a 'F' or a 'M' next to a name that speaks for itself?


    If you can help someone, even if they don't belong to what is for you the vast majority, why shouldn't you? Don't you think you'd have a different opinion if you walked in their shoes?
     
  7. WhereWeWere

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    I never even understood having somebody's gender on a licence or passport, unless they were murdered and the police took their ID, so NBC news can report "a 20 year old woman was murdered in her Kentucky home".

    Seriously.
     
  8. RainbowGreen

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    Yup.

    I heard there is some talk in Quebec to remove the sex from birth certificates and ''mother/father'' would also be replaced by parent. I don't understand why it is there in the first place. I have a F on my papers right now, and it's not like people notice it. Even then, those who do think there's an error with my ID. Not that useful.
     
  9. Ryu

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    Yeah, but no. This means everybody in the uk will have to get a new drivers liscence and passport in order to make it standard, and that means that it'll end up being blooy expensive.
     
  10. RainbowGreen

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    Just print the new ones like that while letting people keep their old ones, simple.

    I know that when we change some little things like that, you only have to wait for it to be time to change it.
     
  11. Im Hazel

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    Yeah, you have to get a new passport every 4 years, for children. I guess its's more like 6 or 8 for adults, but still. Thats a pretty quick turn around, and the people who care can get a new one early. There is actually no advantage whatsoever by putting gender on a passport. I have no idea what people who want to put gender on there are talking about.
     
  12. Kinky

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    I'm surprised that it was a Tory who pushed for it.
    "Gender stereotyping is harmful for both men and women" Pretty sure having a male/female on your passport isn't stereotyping.
    And no one's more obsessed about gender than you transgender. Showing a gender neutral passport ain't probably going to convince anyone of your gender. Having an identification that shows your correct gender is a much better alternative. You don't want to get arrested for using the wrong restroom, do you?
    Think twice before scraping the whole thing together.
     
  13. Im Hazel

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    That word doesn't work that way.

    And the problem with having gender on an ID is more for non-binary people. I mean, the thing with gender is that there is no finite set of words that you have to pick from. Lots of people make up their own words, to show their own specific GI. They get a lot of flack for that, but the alternative is just not telling anyone a specific gender. The fact that people do both of these things shows how pointless having gender on a passport is. If someone identifies as an androgyne, there is no androgyne option. When we start to add "other" as an option, it is just another step towards the inevitable relaxing of emphasis on specified gender, which will end with no gender on passports.
     
  14. imnotreallysure

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    Waste of time. Where are these people coming from and who is giving them a platform to talk shite like this?
     
    #14 imnotreallysure, Jan 5, 2016
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  15. Aussie792

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    It would definitely be pretty irregular to remove it from passports - and irregularities in travel documents are not ideal - and I don't see a great deal of reason as to why it should be removed from licences. Recognition for transgender people is evidently preferable to having the wrong gender, but to remove gender entirely doesn't seem to me particularly useful. I'd much rather people be able to opt out of having their gender on licences rather than getting rid of gender altogether, but I think very few people would take that opportunity up.

    I think that wholesale changes are just unnecessary.

    ---------- Post added 5th Jan 2016 at 10:13 PM ----------

    That's not unreasonable at all. A driver's licence is very often the most or only reliable ID people carry on them. As clear an identification as possible is extremely useful for authorities and gender is a very easy descriptor which is applicable to the vast majority of the population.
     
  16. BlueLion

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    I haven't read the piece of news. But I think it's unnecessary: male/female/non binary. Easier and more simple. Everybody is happy.
     
  17. asdf1988

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    I cant find any reason talking about this right now. Gender identity is completely different from our biological sex. The state , the patrols, the border police airports dont care about how we feel but about how look in order to identify every person enters or exit a country. So its ridiculous trying to remove gender or sex from passports. Its not discrimination to put a label on your self as a citizen. Come on its about security reasons.

    I think that we take the wrong way.. Discrimination is when your gender Id cant be recognised..and not to remove all characteristics in the name of equality
    I should prefer if they ADD some gender categories in the passoprts than remove all..
     
  18. Night Rain

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    It's pretty funny but my ID actually does include my religion. :lol:

    Back to the topic though, I think this is completely ridiculous. If we were to create a passport that doesn't offend anyone, it would have to be blank. Scratch that, it would have to be non-existent because you're killing trees to make papers!
     
  19. Kinky

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    Keyword here being 'make up'
    Make it a law to remove gender because a minority of a minority starts making up their own gender? Doesn't compute.
     
  20. Open Arms

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    Leave gender on because it is a form of IDing someone. However, there should be a third choice for people who identify as non-binary.