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General News UK EU Referendum - 23/06/2016

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by 741852963, Jun 22, 2016.

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How will you vote in the EU referendum?

  1. Voting to Remain

    31 vote(s)
    51.7%
  2. Voting to Leave

    18 vote(s)
    30.0%
  3. Undecided

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Not voting

    11 vote(s)
    18.3%
  1. 741852963

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    So after years of the idea being discussed and months of media coverage on the campaign, the UK is finally going to vote on whether to remain or leave the EU tomorrow.

    Personally on balance I have to say I'm praying for a Remain vote (although I'd be happy for this topic to discuss everyone's opinions).

    My key thoughts;
    1. As a gay person I think the EU has played a definite role on our journey to equal rights. It was the trigger for the Human Rights Act coming into force, and I think without that spark civil partnerships (and subsequently equal marriage) would have taken much longer to acheive. The Act also has paved the way for even stronger protection in terms of safety and employment rights.
    2. Based on my own experiences, I am concerned about many Leave voters, and their agenda, influence and momentum if we were to leave. In my area, those most vocal (from either side) are Leave voters of the BNP/EDL/UKIP variety, who are exactly the people who have actively campaigned against gay people for decades. I'm not saying most leave voters are like this, but I think a sufficient number are, and I'd personally hate for their decision making largely based on hatred and bigotry to be legitimised by a "win".
    3. I think politics in general is the problem with society, and the EU has been largely scape-goated. Look at the leaders of the two side: Cameron and Boris. Both going to the same school, belonging to the same elite club at the same elite university. Both coming from extreme wealth and never having a job outside of politics. Regardless of the EU, I think this elitism and politics being so out-of-touch is the real problem here. Even if we Vote Leave we aren't magically getting a new government or a new political system so this idea "Britain can reinvent itself" is a bit confusing.
    4. Immigration is a definite issue in the UK, I'd agree. But I don't see how we would control this. Even looking at Australia with their strict points system, immigration is still massively high. Plus many in the UK benefit from the flexibility of the present system (in being able to travel/live in other member states like Spain and France quite easily). I think Brexit might "slow" immigration, or cut it slightly. But I don't think we can suddenly half or eliminate it as suggested.
    5. Terrorism - This is something I heard a Leave supporter discussing today, about "letting the terrorists in". I think that is pretty baseless. With terrorism today, unfortunately anyone can become a terrorist. What is stopping terrorists coming to the UK by plane on a tourist visa? Nothing. And what about domestic terrorism? I'm fairly sure are biggest threats are already living here. An EU exit won't magically build an impenetrable wall around us. If terrorists want to get here, they will.
    6. The economy - I think it is inevitable Brexit would cause a slump (and probably a full blown recession) - right at a time when we really need certainty. I don't think this will be permanent, but I think we will be fighting for years just to get back to our current economic position. I don't think we will be better off.
    7. Scotland - I think Brexit would definitely trigger or expediate a second Scottish Referendum (as polls indicates the Scottish largely want to remain in the EU) which would likely be successful. I think with a damaged economy, possible trade loss AND the loss of Scotland the "UK" (or whatever is left) would be really damaged.

    Interestingly I used to be really anti-EU, and I don't think I'm adverse to a future decision to leave. However I think now is completely the wrong time (particularly given our groaning economy), and the reasons and mentality driving the decision and pressure now are wrong, and really quite worrying for me personally.

    Anyway, open to the floor. Your thoughts, and how are you voting?

    P.S. Mods - Not sure if you want to move this to Chit Chat? But it technically is a news event. Up to you! *shrugs*
     
    #1 741852963, Jun 22, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  2. Secrets5

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    Maybe this referendum is just to distract us from the real problems like poverty and war. I mean, how much are they spending on this? That money could be used to go on things to help people, but instead use it for silly campaigns. Perhaps they should just do an online vote [pretty much everyone has a laptop now, so poverty/relative deprivation shouldn't be much of an issue with this] of what people want and leave it at that.

    My thoughts:
    1. The government want to remain in, which means there has to be something for them, and not for ''the people''
    2. I really don't see what we're getting from the EU, I mean, people will still immigrate, there's always going to be people on top/bottom of the social system, we can still have Human Rights, we trade with countries with less HR just because they have something we ''want'' - so to me it seems we're paying a lot of money to have something we can have without paying money in. It just depends on what the government does.


    3. I'm probably going to get in there, panic, not know what to put. Worry about the future with disastrous consequences for whichever I choose and then ''vote to not vote''.


    And in regards to immigration, I'm not against it, but we can't help the people who -immigrant or UK born - are already in this country. Why let other people come here with a perceived ''United Kingdom Dream'' that they're going to have housing and job prospects to come here and find they can't because they're all taken and become homeless - if it's worse than what they had in their home country. Surely we should create new jobs and build housing to house the people here, and then let new people in [unless they have a job when they get here and/or a place to stay - and can come when they want].
     
    #2 Secrets5, Jun 22, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  3. 741852963

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    Probably many millions, but ultimately the referendum has been triggered by people wanting out, so I don't think we can blame the Government for that particular point (they are just bowing to public pressure, and sticking to a manifesto for once).

    In terms of expense though I think if Remain is continuing business as usual, just think of the expense Brexit will entail (all the planning, preparation, think tanks, inevitable new bureaucracy to create new trade etc).

    Oh certainly Cameron has an ulterior motive, more than likely money.

    The likes of Corbyn are now backing remain though, which is more strange (as he doesn't strike me as the typical power hungry fat-cat type). What is in it for him? Perhaps risk-avoidance? I don't know.

    I think we all know Boris and Gove's motives though. No.10 plain and simple. I don't think they have any genuine shred of care towards the UKs future. And it is sickening to see Boris Johnson trying to target the gay vote after he was so against gay marriage (calling it an equivelant to "three men and a dog" getting married) and talking about Section 28 with wording of "the promotion of homosexuality in schools".

    I think he is an incredibly dangerous man, very much our Donald Trump. And I do think that indirectly "a vote for Brexit is a vote for Boris". At present his only influence (now he is no longer Mayor of London) is attached to this campaign. A win would give him a platform, a mandate even and pave the way for him as party leader and ultimately PM.

    We can still have the Human Rights Act, but we wouldn't have an obligation to keep it, and there has been recent calls to scrap it (which would be much easier post-Brexit).

    I think ultimately anyone emigrating to a country (any country) is doing so because they believe the grass is greener (and I think that is a sign of the UKs success and influence if we have people wanting to come here). If they arrive and find it isn't, they can emigrate to an alternative country, return home, or work towards improving their new country.
     
    #3 741852963, Jun 22, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  4. wolf of fire

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    I voted to remain, my first vote on something
     
  5. BryanM

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    I obviously cannot vote since I am not a UK citizen, but I support the remain campaign and all of my UK friends are voting remain. As a non-UK citizen, I'm afraid of the economic and social ramifications of a leave vote, and think it may cause a worldwide recession that would hit the EU, UK, and the US very hard, and I am also afraid how it would effect the refugee crisis as well.
     
  6. alexandr

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    I'll be voting to remain. I think Remain will win, and hopefully by quite a bit so it's conclusive.
     
  7. SillyGoose

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    There is nothing to gain from leaving.. It's a rediculous idea to leave
     
  8. eMei

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    We should leave but there's no way we're going to.
     
  9. Mojan

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    I'd vote leave but I'm too young. Fortunately I've convinced my family to vote out :slight_smile:
     
  10. PatrickUK

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    There are incalculable risks to leaving and I'm not just saying this because I have been convinced by politicians in the remain camp. In actual fact, the political debate has been utterly pathetic, from both sides. I do not think we can even begin to comprehend how bad it might be if we vote to leave. We talk about the economic and monetary consequences, the problems with immigration and "sovereignty" as though nothing else matters in this debate, but our membership of the EU transcends all of these issues.

    I hope we vote to remain, but I think it could go either way. It feels too close to call.
     
  11. Lazuri

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    [​IMG]


    I'd say my thoughts on the matter, but as usual I don't have to, because John Oliver have already said them for me.

    [YOUTUBE]iAgKHSNqxa8[/YOUTUBE]
     
  12. radicalmuffins

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    I've voted remain a few weeks ago via post as I am far away from home. The benefits that we have in my opinion certainly outweigh the losses that we could face in case we do leave. As an aid worker, the UK and the EU have contributed funds to help finance development and humanitarian projects all over the developing world and I think that cooperation says something about what the EU and the UK could do together. I really do hope that we remain in the union.
     
  13. SAYGEUR

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    Im not a UK citizen (YET), but from what I have read, it looks as though that if the UK leaves, there isn't really a solid plan, and anything could happen, which could actually ruin the whole country, while if they stay in, it looks like it would be a lot more secure and definite on the country's history. So I would personally Vote to stay In.

    (While I was fairly tempted by the likes of basically all of my favourite artists saying to stay in, I did research more to form my opinion.)
     
  14. Hatsune Miku

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    I don't really care either way. however i'm really not sure why people think the UK will somehow cease to be a significant world power if they do leave
     
  15. Lazuri

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    Because their trade and economy will suffer.
     
  16. Aberrance

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    I'm really lucky that I'm a '98 kid so I'm just about able to vote. I'm definitely voting remain. Brexit go on about immigration without mentioning the fact that most immigrants come from Asia and outside of Europe, leaving the EU won't control their entrance to the UK. Honestly the campaign's have been all over the place, no one is giving truthful stats and you don't know who to believe. I'm just glad that we're going to be able to rid all the propaganda and bullshit on TV after today. Really there's no plan if we leave. No country has ever left after already being part of the EU and being the trial and error country doesn't seem very appealing.
     
  17. Vytas17

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    Unfortunately can't vote (miss out by a week ugh) but I'd definitely vote leave. The generally consensus with my friends and family is leave but I think we'll remain which is disappointing. Hopefully it'll be really close though so there's a chance of another vote in the next 10 years.
     
  18. GayBoyBG

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    Wasn't "EU membership" the main argument against Scotland's independence referendum last year?
    Will Scotland push for another referendum if UK divorces with EU? Anyone willing to explain this to me?
     
  19. I'm_Danni_x

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    I'm pretty sure if the UK vote to leave, Scotland will push for another referendum to leave the UK as they want to remain in Europe.
     
  20. Lazuri

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    But why? What's your argument for leaving? Because I have literally not heard a single good argument in favour of leaving.