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LGBT News Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To Gay

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Morse Code, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. Morse Code

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    Colorado woman files federal suit claiming state law inhibits right to deny business to gay couples - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com

    So apparently she wants the right to broadcast on her "creative" website, what she claims is God's view of marriage; between a man and a woman. :bang: I really don't get it. Why are so many people just determined to deny gay rights??? I really don't understand peoples' problem with it. If somebody's not gay, fine, but why do they insist on denying everyone else their rights??? Besides, if we're all "God's children", then wouldn't that also include gay people??? The hypocrisy of organized religion never ceases to amaze me.
     
  2. Skaros

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    I just don't understand if God's message about homosexuality is so important, why wasn't it delivered in a way for everyone to understand? She seems very fixated on delivering what she believes is God's message.
     
  3. Kira

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    Pretty much this:

    [​IMG]

    Don't be angry at someone for eating a cookie when you're on a diet, your personal views should not take authority over that of another. If you don't like it, don't do it. I don't like smoking, so I don't smoke. Simple. :thumbsup:

    I'm wondering why this is still such an issue in the US, it's fairly obvious in terms of how to answer it.
     
  4. baconpox

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    As despicable as her beliefs are, she has every right to deny service to anyone. It's not about being anti-gay, it's just freedom, and if you're not free to do bad things, you're not free.
     
    #4 baconpox, Sep 21, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
  5. Kira

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    Imagine the persecution cries and outrage if I made an establishment that refused to serve religious citizens based on the doctrine they bind themselves to. It would be an uproar.

    Personally, I feel some things need to be regulated. There's a reason you can't yell "fire!" in a theatre or "Bomb!" on an airplane, despite the country valuing freedom so dearly.
     
  6. Andrew99

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    I bet she lives in Colorado Springs. That city is loaded with Christians. Anyways she's just gonna bring her business down. Refusing service just to gays is turning away money. Also it is so annoying when someone says "gods view of marriage is between one man and one woman" especially when politicians say and threaten to overturn same sex marriage like no don't take away my rights because your little cult leader doesn't agree with it.
     
  7. faustian1

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    It's poison to mix either religion or politics with business.

    Treating everyone with respect is the optimal, customer-retaining solution. One should welcome the business of bigots, progressives, athiests, fundamentalists, gays, et al. The only customer requirement should be that the customer possess manners, wear a shirt and shoes, and not break anything.

    If any business person failed to notice the recent statistic that gays have higher household incomes than the general population, then perhaps they ought to convert from a business person, to a preacher.
     
    #7 faustian1, Sep 21, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
  8. Libra Neko

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    Kira is right: if it were the other way around, there would be outrage from what I refer to as the "religious wrong."
    I don't get it. Why do they care what consenting adults do behind closed doors? They don't have to do it, so what's the deal?
     
  9. baconpox

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    A lot of people would certainly be upset by that (I wouldn't support refusing service to LGBT or religious people), but freedom is the most important thing imo.

    Yelling "fire" or "bomb" puts people in immediate danger.
     
  10. DoriaN

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    If a person opens a business, or has property or their own artistic creations, they have a right to them. Whether what they do is moral/true or not depends on if we accept objective morality/truth, or view such things subjectively.
     
  11. Cinis

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    I think it's kinda a good thing actually...I mean sure you can sue people into accepting gay customers etc but that won't change the way they think.
     
  12. Linthras

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    As long as she doesn't receive any tax benefits or public services, I agree, but that's hardly ever the case.

    ---------- Post added 9th Oct 2016 at 09:54 AM ----------

    So what? It's freedom.
     
  13. Aussie792

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    As common as this position is, it's incredibly unsophisticated in the way it assumes the only actor that can deny liberties is government. Individuals can systematically deprive others of freedoms if there is no check on their behaviour. And that denial of freedoms is what laws like the one being challenged are designed to check, because failing to correct social imbalances is an implicit approval that discrimination.

    It is fundamentally unfair on the people to be precluded from goods and services because of their sexuality or other demographic reasons. Historically, the right to arbitrarily deny service has been placed above the right to access services you can afford. That's changed in recent decades, and I think it's hard to rationally argue against that.

    It seems very trivial to in this particular case, with a web designer, or in other cases a florist or a baker. Surely couples can just go to any other, right?

    But if the principle extends to all sorts of businesses, it means grocers can deny food to gay couples. It means small shops and regional monopolies alike can lock gays out of the market for basic goods and services - which becomes particularly harmful in regional and poor areas with fewer options.

    So your principle can lead to people being forced into artificial food deserts. Imagine being denied service at the only supermarket within your budget in your area. Imagine either forking out more than you can afford just to eat, or having to carve more time and the costs of transit out of your day to go somewhere inconvenient in order to get basic necessities. That either drives gay people out of an area or forces them to live miserably.

    Or, even if it isn't so dire as being denied basic necessities, just imagine how horrible and exclusive it must feel for a gay couple to be refused entry to a cafe all their neighbours go to, or for a gay couple on a night out to be refused entry to a bar at the door while all their straight friends head in. How that denies gay people a sense of community with their own places of living.

    That's a horrible, segregated and economically unfair world you're supporting by stating businesses should have the right to deny customers business because of their sexuality.
     
  14. DoriaN

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    This goes both ways though, because if you push too hard on one side of the spectrum the other takes a hit.

    I personally feel all humans are worthy of love and respect, but we do have fundamentally different beliefs and if we want to remain correct and not hypocritical we need to maintain a balance.

    You cannot force someone with a different worldview (which everyone has in some form), different belief, to accept your worldviews or beliefs but still call it equality or human rights. This site caters to those that fall under something akin to LGBT, there are different worldviews here but there are a lot of same-type thinking in these cases as well.

    What is right for one person may not be right for the other, especially if we do not acknowledge or believe in objective morality or truth. Claiming otherwise becomes subjective, and as such it really cannot be justified as a position over any other.

    People like to treat 'religion', or faith, or belief as more of a hobby, rather than a fundamental aspect of a person, with how they view and operate in the world, and what they base their existence around. For some sex or their orientation is a fundamental aspect of themselves rather than just a quality, but careful consideration needs to happen when we take basic human issues and mesh that with differing opinions.

    Stories like these to me are often just sensationalized and meant to create a buzz, showing extreme cases and dishonestly perpetrating how life normally operates, and they always end up causing more distress and frustration than what typically happens in actual day to day.
     
  15. Kira

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    Pretty fairly well sums up my feelings on this matter, I feel legalized discrimination should be outlawed plain and simple. Anyone ever seen this in the history book:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    That was the US a while back. And now replace "White" with "Straight" and you have the modern US citizen. Heck, interracial/same sex marriages went through the same opposition and arguments too. This idiocy shouldn't be permitted under any circumstances.
     
  16. Aussie792

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    Re: Woman Files Federal Lawsuit Claiming State Law Inhibits Right To Deny Business To

    Well that would make sense if my argument only applied to LGBT people. But it applies to all consumers as a class, which means that, under my preferred model, Christians cannot be denied service, nor can LGBT people deny services. It's balanced because it acknowledges individuals not as particular groups but as a class of actors in an economic context.

    That is absolutely the most balanced approach in terms of preventing government privileges to any group or allowing the private misuse of one's social position.

    A requirement for consumer protection law to set a simple standard of 'if you can pay, you get access' to goods and services (excepting qualified ones such as education or the membership of clubs and societies, which must be governed by different standards, obviously) does not need to make room for moral subjectivity. It's an objective test with no moral impediments, because it protects literally every consumer and regulates every provider.

    I also believe religion isn't a hobby. Which is why virtually every proponent of these laws I have seen supports the protection of religious people as consumers.

    It so happens that thee cases in the US are predominantly Christian providers against LGBT consumers. But were that ever to change, then those same Christians are protected too. That's why these laws are so desirable; consumers as a class are protected, not specifically LGBT people or religious groups.

    I'm not sure what the implication here is.