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LGBT News 'Gay cake' appeal: Christian bakers Ashers lose appeal

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by doinitagain, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. doinitagain

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    For the BBC website

    The Christian owners of a Northern Ireland bakery have lost their appeal against a ruling that their refusal to make a "gay cake" was discriminatory.

    Appeal court judges said that, under law, the bakers were not allowed to provide a service only to people who agreed with their religious beliefs.

    Two years ago, the family-run firm refused to make a cake saying: "Support Gay Marriage".

    It had been ordered by gay rights activist Gareth Lee.

    More:
    'Gay cake' appeal: Christian bakers Ashers lose appeal - BBC News
     
  2. baconpox

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    I don't get why people think this is about equality, it's about freedom. I think it's wrong to refuse to bake the cake, of course, but enforcing morality doesn't work. If it's ever just for a group to assume power over others (government), it needs to be done in the most solely-pragmatic way possible, not enforcing the beliefs of the majority over the few. It's just not fair to bar people from doing what they think is right, even if I disagree with it. People should boycott the bakers, but it's silly to legally force them to bake it. There's more than one baker in the world, no need to force it on this one.
     
    #2 baconpox, Oct 24, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  3. Cinis

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    I don't see why a gay person would actually want to go to such an environment when they know that the owners aren't genuine and acting under force.
    It's pretty uncomfortable to go to someone whom you know to actually hate you. The only exception would probably be to go there out of spite to rub in that they have to serve you.

    Anyway, what's the use? You may be able to shut people up by suing them but that won't change the way they think and that is what really matters.
     
  4. DoriaN

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    This is so foolish.

    It's not about the people, it's about the message. If I had a bakery I wouldn't want to make a cake that said "kill the whites" or "support black lives matter" if I didn't want to, a person has a right to that.

    Not everyone shares the same views, beliefs, or even religious faith+worldview. It would be wrong to deny service to someone because of some personal physicality or belief, but not to deny endorsing a message that is opposed to the moral conscience of a person.


    It's to cause a stir, to cause drama, to be petty, to incite friction. Going to a Christian bakery to have them make a cake saying "Support gay marriage"? Really? Next are you going to eat meat in front of some vegans or the Dalai Lama? Is this a good way to get a message across? Playing with people's lives and feelings?

    It would be un-Christian to deny service to someone if they were gay or any such thing, but forcing someone to believe or support an opposing view is itself unethical and even evil.
     
  5. Joelouis

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    I wonder if the bakers would have lost the case were they A Muslim bakers?

    ---------- Post added 24th Oct 2016 at 12:20 PM ----------

    I just think it was done for effect and not because they actually wanted the bloody cake in the first place.

    ---------- Post added 24th Oct 2016 at 12:21 PM ----------

     
    #5 Joelouis, Oct 24, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  6. Cinis

    Cinis Guest

    It's nothing I'd ever do as it's probably even more uncomfortable than just going there as an LGBT person. It is simply the only motivation I could think of for anyone to go there ever because as I already said: Who'd want to go to this place if you know that they hate you?
     
  7. Kira

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    I feel it's a lot like those "Whites Only" or "No Colored" establishments you pretty much only see in history books. Same argument, same initiators, eventually it'll hit the same outcome.

    It's just history repeating itself once again. I feel more efficient measures could be taken, but the message is a good one.
     
  8. DoriaN

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    Again, it has nothing to do with gay people, it was the message on the cake that they did not want to make. A straight person could have asked for the same cake and the response would have been the same.
     
  9. A Republican

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    Unfortunately a lot of homophobia is to blame for people like Gareth Lee, rubbing your viewpoints in someone's face and dragging them through a court process serves only to humiliate them and not change their perspectives. Besides they were willing to bake a cake but they had a qualm with their marriage. There are plenty of bakeries you could have gone through instead of going to court.

    You wouldn't see that on the news for sure.

    Some LGBT folk are ridiculous. Crying and stamping your feet off a cake message while others live in fear of being killed in other countries for being gay.
     
  10. Skaros

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    I can't really say I disagree with this, for the most part. I would just go to a different bakery if the baker didn't want to make my wedding cake. I actually have a hard time understanding why anyone would want said bakery to make their cake.

    Someone tried an experiment where they tried asking Muslims to bake a gay wedding cake. They of course denied to bake it, but the left seemed to respond in a different way. People seemed to instead shun the guy who was asking Muslims to bake the cake. How odd.
     
  11. cibi

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    Sure in a perfect world the message is a good one but cmon
    im sure they wouldnt make a cake witch swastikas on it either
    those fags should have just gone to the next bakery
     
  12. PatrickUK

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    People don't fully understand what all of this is about, so to avoid confusion here is a summary of the provisions of the UK Equality Act for businesses: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...hment_data/file/85008/business-quickstart.pdf

    It should be clear that this isn't simply about two petty gays wanting to have their cake. The Equality Act is far reaching and affords legal protection to many groups that would otherwise face discrimination, most notably people with disabilities, who in the past were rejected or suffered great indignity as they tried to access goods and services.

    This was an important legal test for all of the groups protected under the Equality Act. Had it failed, so much would be at risk... more than just a cake.
     
  13. Flowey

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    Ah, then this legal test shows that the law needs some fine tuning.
     
  14. Libertino

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    I'll never fully comprehend the Left's boner for Islam, but it is probably due to little more than Muslims being a minority, and thus somehow this puts them on a pedestal of respect in the eyes of the Left, making them immune from the same judgments and scrutiny that the majority gets. It's illogical and hypocritical, but it is reality, from what I have observed. They see Muslims as oppressed in the West, thus they can do no wrong (which tends to be the Left's verdict for any minority group as a collective).

    Disclaimer: I am for the most part a "liberal" and identify with the Left, but I'm not blind to the hypocrisies present on "my side".
     
  15. natalielight

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    To be very honest, i didn't know whether to laugh or cry when i first read this story-i mean you're a baker,essentially a business run for profit, every person,no matter what their beliefs are, is a customer that adds up to that profit, why on earth would you care what the message on the icing is as long as it's not something offensive or abusive? Why make such a fuss? Why show other people, who in this time and day are actually not condemned (by church etc.) anymore, that they're not welcome? Just how "Christian" that is?
     
  16. Skaros

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    I agree 100% with this.
     
  17. DoriaN

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    It's not the people that are a problem, it's in this case the specific message being put on the cake that the owners did not want to take a part in. If it had said "Support Polygamy" or other such thing I'm sure the answer would have been the same. Not serving gay customers would be un-Christian, but to purport messages in disagreement with the Christian's faith and/or scriptures would be un-Christian. Again it has nothing to do with the people themselves that commissioned it.

    They have that right don't they? To not take money to work on a project that they morally do not align with? Even still many do.
     
    #17 DoriaN, Oct 25, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  18. NoXsOrOs

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    if they wish to own an establishment, they must cater to all individuals.
     
  19. Wolfwing

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    In the U.S. private business owners have the right to refuse service to people and only government funded businesses or establishments aren't allowed to refuse service to people.
     
  20. DoriaN

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    If someone walked into your bakery and asked for a cake to say "I hate trannies" or "Support straight marriage" would you be fine with making that for them?

    Even if you are, maybe not everyone else is comfortable with that, many people have different beliefs values and worldviews. For law to force someone out of their comfort zone to put forward a message they disagree with politically, religiously, and ethically regardless of how a person may feel, to me, is evil.
     
    #20 DoriaN, Oct 25, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016