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US Flag a Symbol of Racism and Hate?

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by DAFriend, Nov 22, 2016.

  1. DAFriend

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  2. Harve

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    The England flag has been hijacked by the far right and its display has been controversial for a few decades now, so it's possible.
     
  3. AlexanderDragon

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    I don't agree that it is, yeah, sure, America as a nation has been really awful to some groups and overall, is just kind of mediocre, but that doesn't inherently mean that it's unrecoverable or unatonable, it just means that we've been kinda crappy in the past. While I'm not really proud to live here, we're capable of change.
     
  4. kibou97

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    Just like anything else, people can interpret things in different ways. I don't personally view it as a symbol of that in particular although I don't really care about it at all. Symbols can also change meaning over time so someone who may have viewed it as a symbol of freedom when they were younger could view it now as a symbol of hatred and racism. It's incredibly hard to tell what something will mean to people way ahead of time but only time will tell how the flag will be viewed 4, 8, 12, or 16 years down the line.
     
    #4 kibou97, Nov 23, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
  5. Argentwing

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    Despite how twisted our country may have become from its original vision, I still have faith in the virtues the flag represents. Just because our history is sullied with racism and hate doesn't mean that's what we're stuck with. The flag is a symbol of everything we *can* be. If each of us aspires to eradicate racism in ourselves and promote togetherness in others, we'll have less reason to be ashamed of the Stars n' Stripes.
     
  6. Browncoat

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    Not nearly as much so as the confederate flag...
     
  7. YuriBunny

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    Whether something is a symbol of anything is a matter of interpretation. But I don't think I'd call it a symbol of racism, as I'm pretty sure it wasn't designed to be.

    Sure, there are a lot of racist people in the U.S., but that doesn't change the original meaning of the flag.

    Anyway, I think places should fly or not fly whatever flag they want, whatever their reasons are.

    I just read the article. Very interesting. I do think that the college was being considerate by removing the flag if it was becoming controversial with the students.
     
  8. AKTodd

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    Various thoughts on this...

    a) When the American flag was first created (ok, actually the ancestor of the current flag,but anyway), slavery was a common practice. After a long of effort (and a civil war), it no longer is. Many of the people who fought to end slavery, who risked their lives and fortunes to help slaves escape, who fought in the Civil War - did so under the American flag and believed in what it aims to represent. Some number of people (including white people) have risked life and limb to try to push our society in a direction that sees all people as equal and equally worthwhile within the society the flat represents. I would argue this shows a certain degree of progress.

    b) Americans have certainly done some shameful and nasty things over the course of their history, often to people of color (some Americans still do). However, pretty much every civilization and nation and culture that have existed since human beings evolved (including those created by people of color) has also done things we would consider shameful and nasty at one point or another in its history. It's a common and popular pastime to pretend that America or 'Western Civilization' invented all the bad things in the world, but the reality is that this is simply not true.

    c) A huge number of people (more than half the country it appears as of today) voted against Trump. So, how does that fit in with the reasoning of the people who are angry at the flag? Admittedly, not all Clinton voters were necessarily rejecting Trump based on the racism and such that grew up around his campaign and came from the candidate himself, but neither was every Trump voter a raving racist/misogynist/etc. So, it seems to me the issue is not so simple as some might be trying to make it out to be.

    d) Finally, I have to wonder just what these people actually hope to accomplish. I understand people being upset that 'their side' lost - but their actions pretty much come across as a temper tantrum rather than any kind of useful or constructive response to the situation. Are these same people going to go out and organize (a message that Bernie Sanders strongly presented during much of his campaign and continues to do AFAIK)? Field or work on behalf of candidates at all levels of government (local, state, and federal) to help to swing things to a situation more to their liking and that can result in the kind of government and society they want to see? Donate money? Etc.

    Because if they want to see things change to something more to their liking, it's going to take more than just being upset or scared or whatever. It's going to take work. So a better use of their time might be getting started on that.

    My 2c worth,

    Todd
     
  9. Jinkies

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    I will be hard-pressed to say I'm proud of the country I grew up in, especially right now.

    That said, I'm with the others in saying that the American flag is a flag of everything the nation can be. The difference between that flag and the confederate flag (and the nazi flag) is that the American flag says "We can be better than we are right now" and that's how it was always meant to be. The others say "This is what we are, and we won't change that" America has always been a place of constant change, and the nation knows it. The flag knows it. The founders knew that from the moment they started it.

    It's just a matter of getting to it. Then we can start to raise Betsy Ross's flag higher. Let's make the Stars and Stripes a flag of hope rather than fear.
     
    #9 Jinkies, Nov 23, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
  10. Kira

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    Pretty much. Still flown in many places where I live too, belongs in a museum rather than government property. Same with the Nazi flag, sure it's a notable point in German history but you don't see it being flown merely because of "heritage".

    I'll say our flag could have a positive meaning someday if people could just stop repeating history, making the mistakes of their ancestors over and over again without ever considering the lessons of the past.
     
  11. Anthemic

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    Very nicely said. I agree completely.
     
  12. Austin

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    No it's just a few dumb college students. It's ironic that it's people getting an education that do dumb stuff like this.
     
  13. Garyroberts

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    I see it as representing the 50 current states and original 13 States formed from British Colonies. It's as simple as that, surely.
     
  14. Jellal

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    The flag represents my country, and my country is not innocent. It's a symbol of mixed values. I think it's stupid as hell that campus crybabies have a problem with it NOW suddenly. I'm sure the real reason there's a push against it is because Trump's supporters are strongly nationalist therefore the nation and symbols of the nation are triggering our hypersensitive reactionaries.
     
  15. AgenderMoose

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    [​IMG]

    Was gonna say something but this sums it up.
     
  16. Andrew99

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    You have a point there. These South African students claim science is racist.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7e2lq4QpQXw
     
  17. dustashed

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    :confused: that's just..
     
  18. Aussie792

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    The same flag under which slavery was abolished was the flag which flew on the courthouses which neglected to find lynchers guilty of their racist violence. That flag represented a state that both imprisoned innocent Japanese with flawed laws and liberated Western Europe. It is a flag which flew over Congress when women could not vote but became a symbol of women's equality when women could take part in the same institutions they had once been barred from, which that flag represented.

    Above all, that flag represents a remarkable continuity and improvement of institutions and the ability to achieve radical success without revolutionary violence. If young American progressives who have benefited from the institutions of government and their continuity that dominate American society reject them now, they will just as much as Trump participate in the weakening of American public life and civil society.

    That is a potent symbol, but in all the wrong ways. It's a corrosive sort of defeatism that prematurely turns an opposition into a resistance movement.
     
  19. midwestgirl89

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    It's already kind of shameful to be an American honestly if you go to different countries. I don't want to own being an American when the "President-Elect" (and I put it in quotations because I reject him) is Donald Trump. I can only imagine the laughing stock we have become.

    The flag....I don't think most see it as a symbol of racism. The confederate flag, yes. There are some people who do not want to stand for the pledge of allegiance and are not proud to be an American but I don't know many that actually call the flag itself racist.
     
  20. Flaming Taco

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    America's Flag is not a symbol of Rascism. I can say this as I am hispanic. I have faced hardships, but this country is much better than the way my home country was. This person was just being whiney.

    ---------- Post added 1st Jan 2017 at 04:19 PM ----------

    And I laugh at your election

    ---------- Post added 1st Jan 2017 at 04:21 PM ----------

    I also laugh at you freaking out of Russia interfering with your election. PAYBACK. THATS FOR STAGING MULTIPLE COUPS IS PERU AND OTHER SOUTH AMERICAN COUNTRIES. YOU INTERFERED WITH OUR ELECTIONS TOO!!
    (*Note, I love America, but it is a "glass bowl" like country. also too much guns)

    ---------- Post added 1st Jan 2017 at 04:25 PM ----------

    But, America is free. Very free. Not many other countries say that. America is one of the few countries you can get a assault weapon, not that I would want one, but in europe, you can't do that. In South America, you cant get guns at all.