Why Can’t You Just Butch Up? Gay Men, Effeminacy, and Our War with Ourselves

From the first two quotes, what I interpret is they think non-feminine gays are just like that as an act and they are really just hiding their feminine tendencies inside. Like, a gay person should automatically act like that?

pleeeeeeeeeeeease...

I understand that some gays are like that and I don't have a problem with it. I do on the other hand have a problem with someone assuming I am supposed to be that way.

 

Agreed and that's what it makes it sound like that. I don't butch it up to avoid being that way. I don't think that all gay men are 'supposed to' have lisp, limp wrists and and be effiminate. I'm sure there are all kinds of varieties. That's like saying all hispanic people speak spanish, all asians like kung-fu or all black people eat KFC/Pop Eyes. (sooo not true with me at least)

In fact, I usually get the opposite effect and hear: "You don't like musicals, you don't like Calvin Klein, you have no lisp--are you sure you're gay?" kind of reaction.

 

Why do some people have a problem with gay guys who are also masculine? This isn't directly aimed at the article, but while I'm seeing a lot of "If you're a feminine male, congratulations, be you!", I also see a lot of "You're a masculine man? You must be faking, stop the act and be yourself!", which annoys me more than a lot of things.

 

Due to stereotypes and labels, people within the community are starting to believe that the stereotypes are true and that's how we're supposed to be. And it's usually an absolute thing, as in you're with us or against us. But in this case it's either you're a real gay guy, lisp included or a fake gay pretending to be straight. At least, that's how I see it. I believe the correct term is internalized discrimination.

 

The only time I have a problem with effeminate gay men is when they're deliberately playing up the stereotype because they think that's the way a real homosexual "should" act. If they're effeminate by nature, who am I to judge?

On the other end of the spectrum we have guys who hate the stereotype so much that they go out of their way to prove how masculine they are. I think they're just as bad as the lisping, effeminate guys they hate.

I'm attracted to masculine guys, but not butch guys. And by "butch", I mean those lame muscle-heads whose entire existence revolves around proving how so-not-feminine they are, with "macho"-this and "macho"-that. Can't they just be average guys and tone it down a little? There's masculine, and there's complete over-the-top jerkassery.

Overall I hate people who try too hard to be seen a certain way. The effeminate ones who simply must let us know that they adore tight pink clothes and valspeak, and the masculine ones who just have to remind us how many games of football they play a day and how many hours they spend in the gym.

 

Remember that EC causes people to be more confident and come out of the closet which causes many of them to have negative reactions towards fem gay guys. A lot of newly out of the closet guys have negative attitudes against fems because they think that by being like that or near that, it will invalidate their manliness. I also get the opposite reaction as well. Come talk to me some time Greggory, I miss your charming voice.

 

i have no problem with fem gays i find alot of them cute.

i as said before dont liek teh stereotype of gays acting up the part over exadurating everything :S but i can stay away from them its my problem i do feel sorry for them for doing it acting your life cant be happy :S

but naturally fem guys thats fine just be themselves dont conform to stereotype and be happy

 

lawl <3333333

 

In my opinion i see nothing wrong with trying to change the idea of figure male figure skaters to feminine. At the same time i also think it should be up to the guy what kind of image he wants. I think it is hard for some masculine guys like myself to make it in certain fields because of that stereotype and i see nothing wrong with guys wanting a more powerful image in figure skating. I also dont see anything wrong with guys choosing a feminine image either. Please dont yell at me for my opinion *flinches*

 

The real question is, if you don't like musicals are you even human? =P

 

Am i the only one whos effemninity (is that the right word) subconscously alters to who they're with? For example when i played football (soccer) i was not atall femmy,not because i made any conscious effort to do so,but because it just happened,i was around masculine guys,so my masculine side came out. Equally if im with a load of gay guys i will find myself becoming alot more efeminate...

 

Haha that made me laugh so much! But I have to admit, most of the people I'm out to guessed on their own!

But seriously, I don't understand why people get so worked up about essentially people just being who they are. Even if someone wants to camp/butch up more than they actually are, if it truely makes them feel happier about themselves then who is to judge. It is not hurting anyone. Just because ignorant assholes want to stereotype the gay community on their uninformed perceptions is not the fault of camp/butch people but the ignorant assholes. It is the latter who should get the greif. Negative perceptions come from the people who chose to latch onto them instead of actually trying to educate themselves rather than the people they base them on. There are enough difficulties already assocciated with being gay and open about yourselves that the last thing LGBTQ people need is for others in the SAME community causing further trouble because of the way ignorant people outside chose to view them and lump them together. I get so angry about this sort of thing because who's right is it to judge the way someone lives their life? I mean if it isn't causing you any harm then why get involved?

I'm not trying to cause any arguements as this is obviously a sensitive subject (and I believe is also so for us girls as well!) but this really is the last place people should be venting their annoyance at overly butch/femme people. Experimenting with gender and steriotypes is all part of the coming out process and ultimately finding WHO YOU REALLY ARE.

 

im the same to a degree, iev also had to be the leader of the pack decision maker etc so have had to be extra butched up lol which is just tired and is effort.... im getting slightly more effeminate but a lot colder as ive gone on.

i dont think anyone has a set define of how they act i think you are always in flux some days your more masculine some you have a fem moment the degree alters but nobody in a set program all the time... you can just be a cold bastard though but thats different XD

 

There's something kinda unclear to me about the phrase 'just be yourself'. After all, who can claim to be totally immune to social pressure?

We live in societies which apart from being heterosexist have standard behaviours set for men and women. And while being gay certainly puts you in a lower position, acting differently from what is expected (according to your gender) demeans you even more. I've heard lots of allegedly 'accepting' straight people say things like 'he's not a fag, just a man who happens to like men' when describing a masculine gay guy 'who doesn't look like one', as if there were two kinds of gay people: 'fags/dykes' and 'normal gays'. Given that 'acting straight' seems to be a plus in this society, it's no wonder many gay people (who already feel discriminated against for their sexuality) don't want to be associated with these 'stereotypes' which are so often made fun of in the Media and in everyday speech ('that's so gay'). Even I found myself thanking God (well, not literally -- I'm not religious) for not being effeminate, since this meant no one called me gay, something I dreaded more than anything else during high school (and still do given that I'm not out).

My point is that this is not just 'a war with ourselves'. It's a war against this machista oppression that has been going on for centuries and that's very difficult to defeat. We may achieve gay marriage and whatnot, but as long as these role models remain regarded as the norm, discrimination will persist in and out of the gay community.

 

I personally find Effeminacy to be a turn off for me. I'm attracted to men for a reason. Sure, people say that it's a way to "identify them", but a simple pride bracelet would suffice.

I support those who do act or express certain "feminine" mannerisms. To me it's just a preference like tea or coffee.

 

This reminds me of this guy I met a while back. He hated himself for any "perceived" gay tendencies(which was basically feminine behavior). The irony of the situation being, that he wasn't really that feminine to be begin with. It was just his internalized homophobia getting at him because he felt that as a "male" he needed to be super-macho which he wasn't. So yeah, I agree, while I'm probably lean towards the more masculine in my likes and the way I'm perceived the reality is that it shouldn't matter. The beauty of humanity lies in its diversity not its similarities. Anyway, off my soap box. Nice article.