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This Makes Me Cry So Hard...Everyone PLEASE Read This

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Revan, Jul 12, 2009.

  1. Revan

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    I don't care if everyone has free speech, the ACLU is being a hypocrite by helping the WBC because their preaching is based behind hating gay men and women...and that in itself is a breach of our rights that the ACLU fights for!
     
  2. Chip

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    The ACLU often finds itself in bed with a lot of strange people, but you have to remember that the ACLU stands for one, and only one, thing: protection of the freedoms granted in our constitution.

    One of the things that our constitution does protect is the right to freedom of speech, assembly, and expression. Even though their speech is offensive, hateful, and hurtful, it is still, under US law, protected.

    And ACLU is often unpopular with what it goes after... but they are there to ensure that *all* of us can continue to express ourselves without limitation from our government. As much as I don't like the Westboro people, I am glad the ACLU is continuing to protect their right, as well as my right, to say what we want to say.

    Now... if at some point the US does as Canada has done, and passes a Constitutional amendment that prohibits hate speech... then that will be a different story. But until then, we have to realize that sometimes freedom has a high cost... in this case, listening to ignorant assholes express their bigoted views.
     
  3. SAGUY84

    SAGUY84 Guest

    Why don't you Americans just go and protest at religious peoples funerals?

    If you can't beat em, join em :wink:
     
  4. Chip

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    Funny enough, there was some gay group that was proposing to do just that,

    The issue is, the Westboro Baptist Church are a bunch of complete looney tunes. There are only about 30 members, and something like 25 of them are members of the same family. Their tactics are abhorred by pretty much every other Christian group out there, even though a bunch of those groups probably are secretly delighted.

    This (1999) video gives a humorous take on one way of dealing with the crazies at Westboro Baptist:
    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABH_RFeeGAs[/YOUTUBE]
     
  5. olides84

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    Well said. And the ACLU is a great supporter of GLBT rights.

    I truly think that the more the WBC continues doing and saying the idiotic things they do, they become more despised. In turn gay rights get increased visibility and support because the WBC opposition is so ridiculous.
     
  6. KeithJ108

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    Sodomy was illegal in some US states until 2003! :jawdrop:
     
  7. EM68

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    Calchip is right. The ACLU is in bed with some strange and disturbing people. They once sued on behalf if MANBLA (Man Boy Love Assoc). Ever since I just can not take them that seriously. Now that they are helping the WBC. That is sad.
     
  8. beckyg

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    Calchip is right. As much as we despise WBC, they have the right to say what they want when they want and if we want the same, we have to let them. I think the WBC is eventually going to dig their own grave and when they go down people are going to be cheering.
     
  9. Kenko

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    I agree with this point. One has to remember that without the ability of free speech, one couldn't protest for equal rights for GLBT, racial minorities, etc. It could appear to others that we were / are just as far "out there" as WBC.

    A comment on free speech and Canada. Recently our local transit commission refused to run controversial atheist ads "There's probably no god, now stop worrying and enjoy your life", and likewise BC transit refused to run a political ad. Supreme court ruled that BC couldn't refuse the ads, and likewise our transit commission can't refuse to run the atheist ads.

    I believe strongly in free speech, even for those whose views differ from my own. A recent example, a friend was shocked that Miss California didn't give the proper Politically Correct answer, even if she didn't believe it. Well no, I think she should be able to answer how she feels, and then be judged accordingly. If everyone just agreed and went by group-think, we'd never get anywhere. It's disagreement that leads to progress. However she failed to give a good argument and was judged accordingly. :wink:

    Another example, the NOM 'Storm is coming' ads. While I disagree with their message, I support their ability to voice their opinion. Many people flew off the handle accusing the ad of the speech, etc. However if you went to their site, the claims were backed up by actual events. And while I don't agree with their grievances, I could see how someone in their shoes would.

    And of course, because of free speech, we are allowed to criticize the ad. Well... MSNBC criticized it and NOM had the MSNBC clips taken down from youtube. THAT I don't agree with.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZeq6EcFptw

    If you want people to be open minded and at least listen to your point of view, you have to be open minded and listen to their point of view. Lead by example.
     
  10. DexterMorgan

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    Because it's messed up to protest at funerals in the first place.
     
  11. Revan

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    I am all fine with free speech, I just despise these people so much that's why.....I know I'm also contradicting with hatred...but just...UGH
     
  12. acorn7

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    I fail to see how forbidding people to protest at a freaking *funeral* is a violation of their rights. If you want to protest, knock yourself out, but specifically at someone's funeral? Is having a peaceful and respectful funeral a right as well?

    My point is they can say whatever they want to say, however they like and everything. Just not near a funeral. Free speech.
     
  13. kramer362

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    It's so simple yet not many seem to get it... the ultimate way to 'beat' the WBC is to ignore them completely. They're constantly in a swarm of media attention and it's exactly what they want; to gain publicity and stir up controversy. It's how they spread the 'message'.

    Imagine how useless they would feel if they stood on street corners all day and people didn't so much as glance at them...
     
  14. starfish

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    As much as I hate the WBC and their actions. Protesting a funeral is a deplorable act.

    It is their right to do so.

    My government professor in college was a lawyer during the day. He once told me that the hardest thing you will ever do is to defend the rights of the unpopular. That is the most truthful statement I have heard in my life.

    The only thing that saddens me here is that my right to swing my fist ends at Fred Phelps nose.
     
  15. Chip

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    And this is exactly what some of the more enlightened places have done. I remember when I was at college, they had hired a gay athletic director, and the Westboro people announced they were staging a protest. The college (a very liberal place) immediately disseminated a memo to everyone saying, in essence, exactly what you just said... simply ignore them, pay them no attention at all, and then they go away rather quickly.

    The westboro people ended up not showing up -- I think they realized they would be in very hostile territory (the school was about 30% lesbigay) and decided it wasn't worth it.
     
  16. littledinosaurs

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    They have the freedom of speech to protest.
    Good thing i have the freedom of speech to say "FUCK OFF"
     
  17. Revan

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    Meh I ignore them mostly, since it's not like I've ever seen them except on youtube. But I still have the right to say they're idiots :slight_smile:
     
  18. VomAnderenUfer

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    I generally agree with what the ACLU does, despite the people the ACLU chooses to represent, as I believe deeply in protecting the rights granted in the constitution.

    But, in this case, I couldn't help feeling disturbed that someone is actually taking up this case to block a ban against protesting at funerals. That the WBC members cannot show the most basic human decency is shocking and a delicate matter to go about with. However, they have really crossed the line here from exercizing their freedom of speech to being beyond offensive and causing extreme emotional pain. I don't think anyone's freedoms are truly being served by allowing them to continue protesting at funerals, and I am very wary of attacks against freedom of speech.
     
  19. Kenko

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    However this ensures that you can protest at their funerals.
     
  20. ELusiveMuse

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    That is messed up. No one has the right to protest at a funeral... End of. It has nothing to do with free speech whatsoever. Thats why they need to clarify laws pertaining to free speech and human rights. It's like over here (Britain) some prisoners cells are better equipped and more comfortable than a hotel room or B and B, apparently it infringes on their human rights to be without t.v's or x-box... Madness.