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Hates Crimes May Be Added As Amendment

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by BitterEdge, Jul 13, 2009.

  1. BitterEdge

    BitterEdge Guest

    Hates Crimes may be added to a defense bill along with a moratorium on DADT for 18 months this week in the Senate.

    I can see the hate crimes amendment being easily adopted, but DADT might be taken up separately. Obama has stated he doesn't want to sign this defense bill.

    http://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=26170
     
  2. Revan

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    Why wouldn't he want to sign the bill? I don't really get bills much, but like what part is he so opposed to :S
     
  3. Porphyrogenitus

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    I'm sorry, but I have difficulty accepting hate crimes legislation. It seems to me that it differentiates defendants based only on what they're thinking at the time (ie. subjective motivation), and then imposes different penalties. Like, that if I bash you in order to steal money, or for absolutely no reason at all, then this should be somehow different under the law to me administering exactly the same bashing because of your race or sexual orientation or whatever.
     
  4. Martin

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    It's not a hate crime to steal money off somebody who happens to be a homosexual. It is a hate crime to hit somebody merely because they are gay though. As you said, it's based on motivation. If you attack somebody because you want money, but you didn't know that person was gay/bi/whatever then there's no intent to perform a hate crime, but if you did it because you didn't like their sexuality then that's a seperate issue itself.

    I also don't believe hate crimes legislation makes one sexuality more protected than another. Heterosexuals are just as protected from heterophobia than homosexuals are from homophobia, so I think it's good to have such crimes punishable because of intent. If you have no intent to harm the person because of their sexuality then you can't be sentenced for it, whether gay or straight.
     
  5. Porphyrogenitus

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    Yeah, i understand that. My point is that hate crimes legislation attaches greater penalties to perpetrators of essentially the same crime, just because of what they're thinking at the time. As in, a hate crime offender gets punished once for the actual crime (assault, or whatever), and then again for their motivation. Whereas someone who commits the same crime, but is motivated by something other than hate, only gets punished for the actual crime committed.
     
  6. BitterEdge

    BitterEdge Guest

    Actually if a gay man in this instance were to attack someone because they were straight it's the same thing.

    Hates crimes legislation is designed to make sure no groups are targeted based on different things like race, etc. It actually has worked and hate crimes towards minorities have dropped because of it.

    The bill actually won't do much, but it will honor Matthew Sheppard and send a clear message that the federal government wants to get serious on LGBT issues. For those in the UK, these laws already exist.




     
  7. Emberstone

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    by moritorium on DADT, do they mean dadt will be put on hold and they wont be able to enforce it for 18 months? I am not quite sure as I dont use moritorium often.

    if it is, that would be a good way to show that gays serving in the military is not going to hurt the military. honestly, allowing racist redneck pig porkers to serve in the military is more dangerous in my mind then to have gays serving.
     
  8. BitterEdge

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    Yes that is exactly what it means. It would almost be an experiment to ending DADT
     
  9. Emberstone

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    I still dont see why letting people with violent tendency and schizophrena serve in the military is fine, but gay people isnt.

    I hope the moritorium goes through. Let us prove we can preform our duties perfectly fine, even if we are gay.
     
  10. Just Adam

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    bout time somthing positive happens lets hope this all gets put through,

    allthough i accept the point on hate crime legislation,

    i dont liek somthign that puts extra significance on a small part of a person drawing attention to it, i think if someones attacked they are attacked and should be punished for that the reason isnt important the ahte is in the action the motivation jsut varys. to add extra punishment to sexuality or discrimination jsut focuses on the differences which goes against what i believe in.

    south park did a good episode on this cartman throws a stone at token...at everything gets blown way out of proportion focusing on hate crime and how token was black.... when really cartman jsut through the stone as he was pissed off....

    these things need proper context and people should be punished for their crime not based on th erasons they did the crime, the reason it was done didnt make it hurt any less.
     
  11. Emberstone

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    the thing about hate crimes is that by its nature, it is premeditated.
     
  12. Legnaj

    Legnaj Guest

    I can understand why people would be aginst it but a hate crime is not a easy thing to pass in court. I too didnt like the idea of a hate crime because a crime is a crime, the way I saw it. But to beat, tourture, kill and mame for the sake of not agreeing with what someone does or is violates the constitution as a matter of disagreeing with someones opinion. We have freedom to believe what we want but when you beat someone up for their opinion because you dont like it then I think you should say hello to some jail time. Hate crime victims end up sevearly beaten, paralysed or murderd.

    Take mathew sheppard and the gay navy man killed this year, thats what they are trying to prevent by puting out a law to detur people from comminting stupid acts. in the name of prefrence.
     
  13. Nodnarb

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    Big news on this; Senate Majority Leader Reid has announced his support of Senator Gillibrand's proposed moratorium on DADT, and has gone even farther to say that he would rather do a full repeal.

    Washington Blade

     
  14. BitterEdge

    BitterEdge Guest

    A little update. late Thursday the Senate approved the attached amendment for the hate crimes expansion act to the Defense bill with 63-28 vote, with a handful of Republicans such as the "girls of Maine" voting for it. The Defense Bill will be up for a vote on Monday according to Senator Reid. Question remains on DADT moratorium and whether President Obama will veto the bill.
     
  15. Just Adam

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    * has faith in obama to do the right thing

    i saw a speech of his on news about how discrimination wont be tolerated...either it was a great political act job...or more realistically it was a very heart felt speech... so i think he will go for this :slight_smile:
     
  16. Nodnarb

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    I have hope that the Senators will do the intelligent thing and take out the F-22 funding (the thing that Obama plans on vetoing this bill over), but I know it's a stretch to think that Congress will ever make a rational decision.
     
  17. BitterEdge

    BitterEdge Guest

    hahaha they would be stupid not to.