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South African Runner vs. gender vs. sex vs. sports

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Kenko, Sep 11, 2009.

  1. Kenko

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    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hfO12l8N4IVTOPQT5hXBSOANQ7uQD9ALD0CG0

    You may or may not have heard about the controversy over a South African runner's win in a world's 800m event.

    The whole issue brings up a number of points:

    1) A number of news outlets are referring to her as a hermaphrodite when they probably should be using the term "Intersex"

    2) The handling of her whole situation from a social point of view. The fact that something so personal, that undoubtedly she has had to deal with herself, seems to be making global headlines. It'd be like me waking up tomorrow and reading "Kenko is gay" on the headline of the newspaper, then on BBC, then on twitter (then on CNN).

    3) The place of gender vs. sex vs. sports. Is it a social construct as far as gender identity, or more for physiological reasons of strength between the biological sexes? This has a great impact on intersex and transgender people as a whole, who do not fit neatly into the binary spectrum, and how they fit in competitive sports.

    4) Sex testing has been official stopped by the International Olympic Committee in 1999. Here's an article about Gender verification in sports: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_in_sports

    5) Regardless she's still a damn good athlete, and should be recognized for strength and determination regardless of sex/gender.
     
  2. beckyg

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    I read this today and thought how horrible for this woman to have to undergo this kind of testing. I think it should be outlawed.
     
  3. Just Adam

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    it is pretty sad i will admit.

    i dunno im of two minds or three abotu all this... i mean it has to be fair on the other runners but her human rights are in question she shouldent be judged on who she is as ive heard nothign of them tryign to be disruptive nature jsut designed her as very athleticly built but also i kinda think their needs to be rules.... oh it confuses me :frowning2:

    regardless thoguh it hsould of been handled differently instead of turnign this person into a worldwide media witch hunt dignity .... its underated these days.
     
  4. Emberstone

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    Well, the thing is that if this runner isnt biologally female *wether male masqurading, or hermphrodidic), it gives them a unfair advantage. in atheltics, woman and men are designed differently skeletally, and their muscular sytems while similer in form,are not truly the same. if it turns out this person isn't fully female, then steps do need to be taken. in sports, you have to be honest about your biologial gender, because if not, you are cheating.

    if she isnt fully a she and has a unfair advantage, then it is unfair to let her compete against other woman who cant really challange and compete against someone like that.
     
  5. stymied

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    How the hell is this woman supposed to know she has no uterus?
     
  6. partietraumatic

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    Quite simply i don't think they can ban her,if she is proven to be biologically female. You cant tell someone they cant compete coz theyre abnormal. If you do that then are you gonna tell Michael Phelps he cant compete in the swimming coz his feet are abnormally large? Or tell Usain Bolt he cant compete in the sprint coz his legs are abnormally long?

    No. You must let her compete. But im not sure after all this she will want to.
     
  7. Porphyrogenitus

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    Then why don't we just have unisex sports all the time, instead of separating them by gender? For the simple reason that, 9 times out of 10, one gender would win all the time at a particular sport (women would actually have the advantage in some), which wouldn't be fair on the other sex competing. It's not the fact that she's abnormal per se, but that she seems to violate the most fundamental qualification of the event - the Women's 800m.

    As for the media attention... yeah, it's not at all pleasant for her, but I suspect issues of transgender/intersex people in sport will become more important in coming years, and it's gotta be dealt with on the public level if any solution (acceptable to most people) is to be reached.
     
  8. Emberstone

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    it isnt so much a question on if she is biologically female... it is a question on if she isnt. if she isnt, it is unfair for someone with the advantage of male biology to be allowed to compete in a female competition.
     
  9. Kenko

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    And the question is,what's the cutoff? What's the criteria? How does someone get classified if they have characteristics of both sexes?
     
  10. Just Adam

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    thats the billion dollar question isnt it... once you start looking at that then you start going into size muscle to weight ratio body structure fitness,

    hell you could even go by lung capacity...

    she has a larger capacity than her so it isnt fair no way she will keep up..etc etc ....oh she will be a better swimmer as due to inbreeding shes got webbed feet and a fin on her back... and her fans all go dah dah dah dah dahdahdahdah dala dala ... >.> anyway yea...the cut off will be harsh unfair and get slammed over...
     
  11. 71390S

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    Aside from societies need to stick this individual into a category, I am rather sickened and horrified at the way in which such a personal and delicate matter was handled. Whether true or not, I am not sure but, I read that the world was made aware that she might be intersexed before she was.

    She is suddenly fair game for the world to discuss, debate and define her before she even had the chance to digest this news about her own body. What the fuck is THAT? She has handled the whole situation with much more grace and class then I would even be able to consider mustering after having such a deeply private thing flung out into the public arena.
     
  12. Just Adam

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    ok shesa lady :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: your right no way a guy could take this so calm ... lol be it bitching or throwing stuff at people...or just throwing people..

    seriouslly though i think everyone agrees no matter what the result or the new regulations that will come from all this she should of been trated with dignity woop i love that word... XD
     
  13. 71390S

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    ^ I know sweetheart! My post wasn't directed at anyone in here :slight_smile:
     
  14. Just Adam

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    i know :slight_smile: i just like to agree XD
     
  15. 71390S

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    *high fivez* :wink:
     
  16. Just Adam

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    *throws his hands up ..... on the rebound?
     
  17. Rygirl

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    Personally, if she has been brought up as a woman, and believes that she is a woman, and has characteristics of a woman then she should be allowed to compete as a woman. Everyone should be congratulating her on her talent and success.
    This is a hot topic of controversy in my house at the moment, I am not not talking to anyone because of their insensitivity.:tantrum:
     
  18. Kenko

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    Therein lies the question. What qualifies as characteristics of a woman? What about people who are between the sexual norms? Male-like levels of testosterone could give a benefit in athletic competitions. People with ambiguous genitalia? Some intersex people could have XX Chromosomes, yet have their genes expressed as stereotypical "male". XXY Chromosomes?

    This came up in discussion at our home too.
     
  19. Emberstone

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    I agree, it has been poorly handled... but competitive sports are suposed to be about fairness.

    it is unfair to have a person with possible male biological characteristics of a man compete with people who are biologically female.

    no offence to the woman of the forums, but there are difference of ability between male and female in many sporting events. biology and physiology play a major factor in those difference.

    It is like with preformance enhancing drugs. it can and does give unfair advantages.
     
  20. beckyg

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    :roflmao: I think its great people are discussing this. I agree with you! Let her compete as a woman!