Don't discriminate against our discrimination!

I'll offer a fourth - he's an intolerant, judgmental, homophobic asshole

Thankfully these religious funda-nuts are losing the "culture war" in the USA, and alienating the younger generations in the process.

 

Here are the major argument flaws that I see:

1. This is a clear example of discrimination against Christian values and beliefs.

The argument is already flawed. The freedom of religion protects a person's right to worship as they see fit. They have the right to have religious values and beliefs. However, this does NOT mean that they have the right not to have these values and beliefs challenged. As I fear I will be repeating often throughout this post, "You don't have the right not to be offended." Now, as far as hate speech goes, I actually agree that there should not be a penalty for speaking your mind, even if that speech is filled with bigotry and divisive poison. Unless it actually contains sedition or treason, it should be protected by the First Amendment. We certainly wouldn't want "I'm gay" to become an outlawed phrase under a conservative-government push. I think it's only fair that we not force them to silence their dissent if they have it.

2. Metro pastors have raised concern over a law that protects gays and lesbians against hate crimes and said they’ll test the federal law before they’re silenced in the sanctuary.

I don't like the sound of that at all. They'll "test" the law? What, are they going to go out and beat up some gay people to see how strong the law is? If so, I hope the full force of the law is slammed on top of their arrogant, ignorant heads and they don't see the light of day for many years. I don't support hate speech legislation, but I do support hate crimes legislation. HSL actually does infringe on rights, in my opinion, whereas HCL doesn't. It simply adds penalties once a crime is committed. As long as they don't commit a violent crime, this law shouldn't even matter to these people. The only reason it would be an issue is if they were actually planning to commit violent crimes against LGBT folks, and this law suddenly made that not as appealing. Fuck them, if that is the case.

3. The religious leaders said their right to speak out against sin is likely to be challenged by the nation’s expanded hate crimes law.

First, it should go without saying that sin is a made-up word that only applies to someone who holds the same religious beliefs as these pastors. They can't measure sin, see it, taste it, sense it, or test it. What they're actually speaking out against is homosexuality as a practice. I think they have the right to speak out. However, this right will not be infringed by the nation's expanding hate crimes law. Speech is not considered a hate crime. That's hate speech, as I've said numerous times already. Just like the homeless guy with the sign "The End Of The World Is Near! Repent!" is not a threat to national security, "Fags Go To Hell!" is not a violent crime.

4. “It doesn’t happen the first day, but inch by inch your freedoms are taken away,” Blair said.

Oh, shut up, Blair. You don't have the right to assault a gay person or commit any other felony inclusive in the hate crimes legislation. Sure, you have the freedom to do these things, but you certainly won't be protected from the consequences. Again, he is blending HSL and HCL into one umbrella.

5. They’ll speak out on federal property and make it crystal clear they believe homosexuality is a sin.

I never would have guessed!

6. "Having been charged under a hate crime, I'm definitely moved with compassion on those who the government is trying to silence us from reaching out to," he continues, "but we're going to continue to do as we have been doing, and ministering to those trapped in the bondage of this lifestyle."

Wow, where do I begin? No. No, you won't. You won't be moved by compassion to reach out to the gay population. You'll be moved by your disgust for gay people to rally against gay people during a peaceful parade and celebration of self by drawing up ignorant and offensive signs that said people will be going to hell and that god hates them. That's not compassion, sir. That's hate. And as for being trapped in the bondage of this lifestyle... it sounds like he has a thing for trapping and bondage. Hrm.

 

These claims by the religious right that new LGBT hate crime laws will criminalize anti-gay speech are absolute garbage. The First Amendment protects their right to spout off against LGBT people, as long as that speech is not tied to an intent to commit a criminal act. The law punishes criminal intent, not free speech, even if it is hateful speech. While we all disagree with the homophobic messages contained in their speech, in the United States, the First Amendment gives them the absolute freedom to express those views.

http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/hate-speech-campus

 

The Matthew Sheppard Law has nothing to do with hate speech, but this Colorado legislation has potential to create some serious censorship issues. Hate speech, while unfortunate is an inevitable part of a free speech society. If this law were to be enacted in my state that would mean that the evangelists on our campus would have to leave. There is one particular group that is there weekly that I would be very sad to lose. They evangelize through conversation, not declamation. And though they are anti-homosexual, it's not their primary message. I've been talking with them every week for months now.

Evangelism is a very important part of our culture, and I disagree with anything that limits it.

 

I see a difference between someone professing their beliefs against homosexuality, and someone targeting a person and hurassing them verbally for being homosexual. the first is religious expression, the second is abuse.

For something to be prosecuted as a hate crime, there is a burden of proof.

hate crime legislation does not apply to someone going out with their bible and preaching in public... but the moment they target and verbally abuse or defame a person, that is wrong. Hurassment, defemation, and threatning intimidation is wrong.

 

I have to wonder if these right wing nutjobs ever take a hard look at themselves and what they do, and ever wonder if they look completely ridiculous. I'm sure they don't, but they should. Just an observation I've made, but they all look completely nuts preaching about "Gay as Sin" and whatnot.

I am getting so tired of these people claiming they're being attacked and whatnot. Gays have been attacked for ages, but now that we're standing up for ourselves, suddenly the "poor innocent Christian hate-mongers" Sheesh, what a bunch of dumbasses.

I'm wondering what they mean by "testing the hate crimes law" too. That really scares me. I also hate the "special rights"argument. It's not about "special" rights, it's about being treated equally. Why they can't get that through their thick skulls is beyond me. Now, I fully support freedom of speech which can rear some ugliness sometimes, but I still support it. However, there is a fine line between speech and harrassment, abuse, and defamation. Harrassment, abuse, and defamation are what these churches seem to be promoting, and I do not stand for that. That's just wrong in so many ways.

 

Not sure how i feel about this
(and i hope that this actually posts in the right thread this time)

 

They are misunderstanding the meaning of a hate crime. While my understanding is likely not very precise, but I understand a hate crime as a physical or verbal attack with intent to cause actual harm.

Standing on the street corner and telling me I'm going to hell is not causing me any harm at all. It is your right to do so. I've been condemned for so many things (oddly enough, not for being gay) by religious zealots on my college campus I'm surprised I haven't been struck down where I stand. I don't think this law changed any of that religious expression.


...

They know they're steadily losing the war; they're now just reaching to maintain any bit of ground they can.

 

Did anyone catch the news about how a bunch of people tried to protest the new hate crimes law by marching around SCREAMING hateful things about homosexuals? I dont remember where it was, all i remember is they were doing it to try and get arrested to prove a point that this was a "thought crime" law.

Guess what happened?

Nothing. 'Cept they got counter-protested after awhile xD

This is NOT a thought crime law. You do not get punished for being an asshole, only acting on your assholeness.

 

there is no such thing as a 'thought crime'

thinking is not a crime, and you cannot punish a person for thinking something.

But acting on hateful thoughts and beliefs, and targeting a person based on those is a crime.

Civilized people keep their bad and negative impulises to themselves.

Fundementalist chirstians act upon them, abusing people physically and verbally.

Christ preached tolerence, compassion, love, and humanity.

by christs teaching, the vocal christians better get some sunsceen, cause they aint seeing heaven.

 

I agree that you can't limit evangelism, can't be selective about the free-speech you limit, right? But I have trouble seeing how it's an important part of our culture, except in the same ways that violence and discrimination are important parts of our culture. Evangelism only helps to enforce beliefs that difference is wrong and there is only one right way.

Sure it's something that's shaped our culture, but the world would be much better out without it.

I'm sorry if I offend people, but I'm kinda a jerk.