Monkey Uncaged: Can’t Butch and Femme Men Just Get Along?

Well I don't know about the case for gay guys... but I know I have a effeminate gay guy friend and there are days when... he can get too much. (As much as I hate to say). But honestly... he doens't take advice and doesn't know how to respect himself/others so... it's probably just him.

I have other gay guy friends though. And as for myself I am butch some days, femme others, neither or both on the remainder days basically however I feel.

 

I agree there, very good and interesting article.

Not being part of any gay community, its not an issue i have particularly considered before. I wouldn't call myself 'butch', im far from that, but i don't come across as particularly 'gay' so i guess for the purpose of this article im in that group. I certainly get where he is coming from about having to come out 'again again and again'. I have friends who are very effeminate and they don't have to come out, beacause everyone just knows that they are gay- its obvious. Even if they do have to tell someone, they certainly get no surprise, and don't have to deal with the worry of being treated differently, as everyone assumes they are gay anyway. I do envy this. I've never had anyone guess i'm gay, even now all my friends don't know, because i have to tell every one of them. Because im not particiularly effeminate i still find it hard and nerve racking to tell people.

But as i say, im not really part of any gay community. Interestingly this could well be because i find large numbers of gay people rather intimidating. Why this is the case, i don't know.

Anyway i'd be interested to hear the opinions and experiences of anyone who is part of a community.

 

There are always personality types that clash and this is just another example one of them.
Some butch&femmes will get along and others won't. It's not going to greatly change because of an article like this (but maybe there will be more understanding? who knows.)

It's the same thing with a really neat person and a really messy person. They are just going to get on each others' nerves and not because they mean to. They are just being themselves. Some people can get over the other person's perceived faults; others cannot.

The article seemed to touch upon breaking gender types. This is just a random blurb I have with gender types. I feel that they only people who are really concerned with them are some extreme people who follow them (hyper masculine/feminine people) or the people who are extremists against them (cause they are constantly talking about them). I feel like nobody follows them strictly and everyone kind of does whatever they want without really thinking "oh no, this is going against masculinity/femininity!"

 

if that is who a person is, why should it be a problem.

I knew a guy who wasnt butch or masculine, but when he came out, he started acting more femme then carson cressley. turned out in the end, he only acted that way in public because he thought that was how gay men are suposed to act. that was what his homophobic father had led him to believe.

If you are just being yourself, thats fine, but I think if you feel pressured to be someone you are not, there is a deeper problem.

infighting in the gay community wont get us anywhere.

 

I think that if someone is naturally butch or naturally femme, it's no problem. They're just being themselves, and that's awesome. People who purposely try to act butch or femme when they clearly are not is just harmful to themselves. Just my opinion.

Me, I consider myself to be in the middle. I'm far from butch, but I'm pretty far from femme too. I like being in the middle, it's just the way I am. I love masculine gay guys, and I love queeny gay guys, as long as they're being themselves. The media can project the femme stereotype I know, and I also know some men act that way because they think that's how gay men are supposed to act. I wish the media projected more of a "be yourself" message. I worked with two (legitimately) femme gay guys and let me tell you, I always had a blast with them. We got along great, and just clicked. Plus, it was fun to check out hot guys together.

I hate the butch vs. femme thing. Can't we just get along, accept, and appreciate each other?

 

I just think we need to respect each other for whatever degree of masculinity or femininity we present. I feel the pressure to be masculine in larger society, while with the gay community at my school I feel the pressure to be effeminate and more obviously gay as though to show my "alliance". Why can't we just be ourselves and not care how obvious or inconspicuous our sexual orientations are?

 

That's so bizarrre! Everyone here flocked to Juno no matter what kind of pereson they were. But different areas have different experiences.

 

My area is like Greggers. Everyone around here, especially guys, sets everything in categories based on gender. Like, two guys won't go to the movies with each other unless others are going and they won't see a certain type of movie unless a girl's with them. A guy can't say certain words, can't wear certain things, do certain stuff, like certain things, etc. This guy even said that 'a guy can't give his female friend a gift for her birthday because that's gay." :eusa_doh: What's worst is that girls agree with these behavior and will call out guys who act against them. This, in turn, makes guys try to stick to the "norm" because if girls find it unattractive, it needs to be stopped now. So much for them being the smarter sex. The hypermasculinity around here is insane.

 

I love Brent Hartinger. He wrote Geography Club, The Order of the Poison Oak and the one other book that the name I forget. But yeah it was a great series I'm glad he brought this up

 

That's crazy! C'mon, it's like a Crayola and everything!:dry:

Well, I liked the article. It's hard to explain where I fall. I find myself emulating my mom a lot, because we're really close and she's awesome. The best I can come up with is tomboy. In high school I was shy (still am) so I hardly ever showed people who I was, and when I did you still couldn't tell if I was gay or not. I was just myself. So I'm effeminate but still have to come out all the time. I definitely see the pressure from both sides. I'm not quite the stereotype, but I like masculine guys (knights in shining armor!), and would want to be somewhat submissive.

 

to be completely honest on the subject, really effeminate guys piss me off. they make gay/bi men everywhere look like wanna-be women. i know it sounds harsh and i'm sorry if your femme or find it offensive, but it makes it really hard for someone like me to be the gun-toting scary motherfucker i like to be when everyone is questioning why my wrists aren't limp and i don't have a lisp.

to be short, gay guys who perpetuate the stereotype = me angryface

 

It really annoys me that such a big deal is made of this. So what if you are an effeminate man, masculine woman, masculine man, or feminine woman. It doesn't change who I am am. The way I see it there are only 2 types of people in this world. Assholes and not assholes.

 

Be careful! Out-group stereotyping is more of a subconscious psychological reaction rather than them deciding that all people must be like this one person. The way we categorize things is more of an action that can't be helped. We all have to reteach ourself to get out of that mindset and usually don't do that until we encounter someone who breaks that image we have of a certain group. (Especially if that person becomes part of our ingroup!)

 

I dont get the lisp thing. Lisps are usually because of a physical malformation of the short palette. it has nothing to do with sexuality. I have a slight lisp on certain sounds because of shorter than normal short palette. I am gay... those two things are unconnected.

like I said earlier, I knew someone who femmed up when he thought he was gay, and he started talking with a lisp.

if you are perpetuating the stereotype because that is what you think you are suposed to do, thats wrong. but if you just happen to have always been like that mannerisemish, then your fine.

 

These are all unjustified stances. We know racism has no basis. We can prove that very easily and it's an objective fact. The fact of the matter is, the way a person carries themselves in public IS changeable. Very much so. If it were up to me I would act like a crazy furry and I would be a lot happier. But I live and study in a professional environment and CAN'T do that. Not to mention I try to be reserved to make other furs look better, cause god knows enough of them work hard to destroy our reputation. I'm only asking of the gay community what I already do: carry yourselves with a little more concern for the image of the community.

I do accept them. That doesn't mean I have to like them. For example, if someone walks up to me and punches me in the face, I understand he's probably had a rough day, there's a lot of mitigating circumstances, and I just happened to be the unlucky one. He probably isn't that bad a guy. HOWEVER, he just punched me in the face. I can't just let that go.

You're talking in a world of ideals. We do not live in such a world.

Again, I'm trying to be professional about this. I want to avoid flaming or fighting, just trying to offer a different viewpoint.

 

I've included a quote from the original article that seems to address what you guys are talking about.