So, I found this very interesting: http://cara.georgetown.edu/pubs/CARA Working Paper 9.pdf Its a piece of research done by a body very closely linked with the catholic church, and among other things, it discovered that significant numbers of catholic students at university move away from church doctrine on gay marriage during their four years. Many students move away from doctrine, some move closer to it, but the overall move away is 23%... and that number is for catholic students at catholic universities! In their 3rd year of study, only 1/3 of catholics at catholic schools 'somewhat' or 'strongly' oppose marriage equality. In light of the Pope's recent statements, this seems like good news to me, and well worth sharing! :eusa_clap
I want to thank you very, very much for posting this link! As you might know from other posts I have a personal interest in this topic, so I'm going to do this justice and read the report from start to finish, and then post my thoughts!
Thanks for posting that. This is quite an interesting study and provides empirical evidence that there is wiggle room in the interpretations of Catholic teachings and that the social settings could very well have an impact on the beliefs of students. I found the following to be an interesting passage: Not reading too much into it, but this could very well highlight an important aspect within Catholic teachings. Although there is a base line from which Catholic teachings start, as one builds on them, the interpretations and significance of these interpretations and teachings change so that what we could be looking at is that at different colleges, students although exposed to the same teachings and materials, might get a different interpretation of these teachings. I think it also highlights that Catholicism is not a coherent identity and that it is open to interpretations formed over time (as it is the case with all types of identities for that matter). Identities are constructed on the basis of values and norms. When these values and norms are questioned or are interpreted in different ways, identities begin to change and are also reformulated. This, combined with their own social milieu, socialization and world views, as well as identities, allows students to move away from the 'traditional' understanding of Church doctrines and the interpretations of Pope Benedict (or the Vatican for that matter) and what is considered to be the 'true' teachings or views of the Church. This is rather an interesting finding when examined in light of the data analysis: I find the message that this entails quite positive actually. Although students adhere to Catholic teachings and feel they affirm their faith, they have changed their views on hot button issues, on which the Church has strong views, and have (by and large) moved away from the Church despite being immersed within Catholic teachings. I find that one weaknesses of this study however is that the authors did not probe more for students' socialization and world views before and after they entered the colleges, which could perhaps explain the divergence between students views and the teachings of the Church.
as people get older and are introduced to a greater variety of life its only natural views and assumptions are challenged and tbh people just get to a point they are fed of people telling them what to think. free will and all that interesting though. another note it does show the catholic church is in trouble.. if every year 20^ leave they will r down eventually and the results can only be more drastic in non catholic schools.
OK, I've read the entire article in detail. For those who don't want to read the whole thing(it is quite lengthy), this is a formal study whose objective was to answer the following question; An important part of this was an analysis of whether or not students came closer to or drifted away from the positions of Catholic dogma on a number of "test" issues like abortion, the death penalty, and importantly to the LGBT world, same-sex marriage, during their tenure at the college. My first thought is that while the study has a rather narrowly-defined objective, the results can be extrapolated to draw broader societal conclusions. For example, the express purpose of Catholic colleges is to strengthen the "Catholicity" (their word) of students. The expected outcome would be that students should be brought closer to the teachings of the church (I prefer to use the somewhat pejorative term "indoctrinated"); any different outcome would represent an unexpected and therefore noteworthy result. If their college experiences bring students closer to the Catholic positions, then mission accomplished. If on the other hand students drift away from Catholic positions during their time at college then there must be some outside force whose influence on these students is greater than that of the institutions themselves. So what did the study find? Here's the global conclusion; No real surprise - in general, Catholic colleges generally maintain or strengthen the faith among students. However, there was one significant deviation; In other words, going to a Catholic college made students less likely to agree with the Church's position on same-sex marriage. What's the take-away? The authors feel that on some issues, the forces of society are greater than the ability of the Catholic church to enforce them (I'm obviously paraphrasing). It says that the Church is losing ground despite teaching the contrary in their own colleges. And the most pronounced of these issues is same-sex marriage. It would have been interesting to see whether students' perceptions of homosexuality in general changed the same way, although it could be argued that their positions on same-sex marriage should be reflective of their overall positions on homosexuality. I went to a Jesuit high school for 2 years; homophobia was entrenched at the teaching levels, and that was reflected in the sentiments of the general student body. That was a number of years ago, and I'm curious to know whether that has changed as society as a whole has become more accepting of homosexuality. Interesting.
This is one of the drawbacks of this study. Although the authors examine the variables of 'beliefs', 'attitudes' towards social and political issues against students "religious behaviour" defined as "frequency of attendance at religious services, prayer,reading of religious texts and publications," the study doesn't probe for variables that measure 'socialization' of students before and during their education that could provide for greater insights into what is actually going on. Socialization, the environments in which they find themselves and their world views will have an impact as to how much the teachings of the colleges and by extension, the church, have an impact on them or how they view/relate to the teachings of the church. Another variable that is missing I think is an 'institutional' variable. Once institutions are established they often take on a life of their own. In other words, although the colleges are to conform to the Ex Corde Ecclesiae, every college is an institution for itself, meaning that each college has a different institutional dynamic that has an influence on how the institution itself comes to interpret the four pillars of Catholic identity spelled out in the Ex Corde Ecclesiae: Institutions, which are composed of norms, rules, and procedures, also influence the very people that they employ. Over time, institutions can influence individuals' ideas and views as individuals become an integral part of an institution, its history, its operating procedures, etc... However, the ideas, views, and socialization of individuals (administrators, professors, teachers, clergy) also have an impact on the institutional norms and values and in effect mold them which in turn informs students' education within that institution and how the colleges influence students beliefs and ideas. The socialization, influences of peers and family, the views of professors/teachers and the general learning environment that colleges provide, and colleges' interpretation of text then, all have an influence on student's perception of their faith and how that faith relates to the wider world or issues, such as abortion, homosexuality, same sex marriage, etc... and vice versa. In addition, the authors point out and which forms part of their argument: The 'where' ties directly into the points raised above, and thus could provide further insights in the phenomena under consideration, isn't probed for adequately.
Did you find that this was reflected in the teachings and attitudes of the faculty, or in the prevailing attitudes of the general student body, or both? This study strongly suggests that the student population is moving towards liberal societal attitudes especially in regards to homosexuality. But if this is found in the faculty itself, then they are technically in conflict with the directives of the Church. How would they reconcile that?
Both. about 75% of the school was still technically "conservative" while the rest were more "liberal" definitely. That's just how it is in my area. While they were more accepting of LGBT things, most were still conservative about other things (and that's basically how I am), and then with the whole Catholic thing, it's more of an understanding of the teachings they are teaching us, rather than following the rulebook, if you know what I mean. They're doing what is right, what Jesus would do (WWJD xD). They're just trying to be progressive with the things that need to be progressed in their eyes (and this being attitudes toward LGBT people, and I have witnessed my own teachers say this stuff to us in class), and try to get the rest of the Church rollin that way too. I mean, think about how radical Vatican 2 was. You could say these people aren't being Catholics, but you could also say the same with the supporters of Vatican 2 based upon the same logic. I've been learning about the uncensored version of the Church, FROM the Church, for my whole life now. Obviously not all areas are like this though, this is just my experience.
"3. Fidelity to the Christian message in conformity with the magisterium of the Church" 'church' and 'magisterium' being in the same sentence is a big problem right there... just saying.
I suppose. The student body is clearly homophobic. The grade 12 "philosophy" (cough, cough) course has a section on why same-sex attraction is morally wrong. However, a number of my teachers have also said that they think homosexuality is fine and one has even said he was upset that the religion department taught that it was a moral evil. So I guess that it's probably improved since your time, but it's still far from perfect.
