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Crossing the humor line

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Sylver, Feb 28, 2010.

  1. Sylver

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    Is it ever acceptable to make jokes about gays and lesbians, and if so, where do you draw the line? Does it matter whether it's a straight person or a gay person telling the joke?

    The whole Johnny Weir thing seems to have crossed that line when the media made "jokes" about his gender identity - a lot of us thought they had gone too far. And yet in the past couple of weeks I've watched Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Wanda Sykes and Bill Maher make some pretty crude jokes about gays and lesbians - and I laughed at them. Now these comedians are known to be "gay-friendly", but does that give them license to say things that others couldn't get away with? Why does that matter when the punch line is the same?

    One reason I ask is that some professional comedians say that humor relies on a degree of discomfort in the audience. In other words, we laugh at a gay joke because there's just a hint of internal homophobia at play (in the literal sense of the word, not necessarily implying "gay bashing" or anything like that). Example - I'm a gay guy but I'm uncomfortable with crossdressing. Can I make a joke about crossdressers? Even if I know that I'm probably using humor to mask my discomfort?

    My ever-expanding mind would like to know your thoughts on this! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
  2. Connor22

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    I say if you can make people laugh at something then do it, it's kinda like the millitant black guy (balls of steel)
     
  3. Zumbro

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    for me, it's mainly whether or not someone is going to be offended. If a group of people could be seriously offended, then it isn't funny. On the same note though, everybody gets made fun of for something. We can't make black jokes and say making fun of mormons isn't ok. Every joke will offend someone, but it's a matter of context mostly. I'm sure some people here found the "Sassy Gay Friend" video offensive, but I thought it was hilarious because it was clearly a joke. Had it been a PSA I wouldn't have been so accepting of it.

    The olympics was a huge deal because it was completely out of line in context to the event. Could you imagine the uproar if an announcer suggested we give a DNA test to someone to ensure that they were Chinese enough? The Olympics are supposed to be honorable, and a time for every person to respect all others and join in athletics, and they made fun of one athlete for being gay, without (as far as I know) mocking anyone else. It was a personal attack, and whether they thought it was funny or not, they should have thought about the consequences before saying it on national television.

    Comedians are funny because they poke fun at everyone. It's supposed to be funny, and even offensive, but there is no seriousness with a comedian. The Olympics is serious business, so it was not acceptable behaviour.

    And that's politics for ya.
     
  4. Zume

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    When it is a joke that is in general toward gays and lesbians.. I think to myself "If we can't laugh at ourselves..." As far as who is telling the joke it shouldn't matter as long as it is a good joke.. but what the sportscasters did was incredibly rude. They focused their comments on a single person..not at the group as a whole. Those were not jokes..they were offensive comments. It's a very fine line..but I, myself, laugh at most of the gay jokes I hear.. I've got no problem with them.
     
  5. Hoppip

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    I remember one comedian saying it's not the joke, but it's the "feeling" behind the joke. You can just kind of tell whether or not it's coming from a place of love and respect, of a place of hate and intolerance.

    As for me, I also give them comedic license. I can be a pretty uptight person, but I think once you're behind that microphone on that stage, you can say whatever the hell you want. Personally, I don't find the crude jokes funny, but I think the glances at social phenomena are funny.

    EDIT: Also, as an aside, I hate male comedians and generally only think few of them are funny. I prefer female comedians. I'm sexist.
     
  6. kettleoffish

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    I'm of the opinion that something is rarely funny if it isn't offensive to somebody.

    Actual funny comedy is almost always offensive. LGBT people need to live with it. I'm half Jewish, I still laugh at jokes about Jews.

    I think the line is drawn at whether the person telling the joke is saying it because it is funny, or because they intend to be offensive and believe what they are saying. For example, if Glenn Beck or Michael Savage joke about 'dirty faggots', or if Nick Griffin says something about disgusting Pakis, that isn't funny. But if someone who isn't homophobic or racist says it, it can be very funny.

    that's my take anyway.
     
  7. RaeofLite

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    To follow this, I think it's almost like saying, It's ok for African Americans to make Black jokes but for everyone else it's 'borderline eh' or 'not cool'. Then again, many people have little doubt that African Americans chose their race. Whereas people might think gay, queer or trans people choose their orientation and gender norms. This might be the reason why jokes are made. People are uncomfortable with it and don't realize it's not a choice.

    And I'm gay (or a lesbian if you like that term), and I have this one lesbian joke I love to tell anyone new I meet with a sense of humour. Just to see how they react. Plus, it's kinda cute. Then again... I'm gay so in a way, it makes it ok for me to say it if the people I'm telling it to realize this.

    But I think the Johnny Weir commentators aren't very respectful because it is his career. This isn't something he only 'does for fun'. It's his life. And maybe he is a feminine dude, and realizes he's pushing the gender norms for guys but at least he's doing waht he loves. However, if he is a Champion at figure skating, I think he deserves the respect of the comentators to call him that rather than 'the ever flamboyant Johnny Weir". Champion is like a title that someone earns. If he's earned it, then it should go with his name.
     
  8. Lexington

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    >>>To follow this, I think it's almost like saying, It's ok for African Americans to make Black jokes but for everyone else it's 'borderline eh' or 'not cool'.

    Precisely. You've got it. The lines are different if you're in the group.

    Where do I draw the line? This may sound surprising to some, but I don't. My basic feeling isn't "is this offensive" but "will this be offensive to the person I'm telling it to?" I've always used humor to deal with sensitive topics - from sexuality to death - and I don't recall the last time I heard/thought of a joke that I thought was "too offensive". I have thought several were too offensive for specific people to hear, or even MOST people to hear, but that doesn't mean I think they're offensive in and of themselves. I think everybody has their own lines, and I do try my best not to cross them. But some people have pretty low thresholds for humor.

    "Why'd the chicken cross the road?"
    "Is that another chicken joke?!"

    [​IMG]

    (Above reference only funny if you're over 40.)

    Lex
     
  9. LostandFound

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    I generally try and judge meaning behind the comment. For example, some of my friends who have been incredibly supportive still say things like "that's gay" and it doesn't bother me. With comedians like John Stewart and Colbert, they are just trying to point out the absurdity of homophobia, so even though I think they've crossed the line a few times, I don't really care because I know they are trying to do good.
     
  10. Zume

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    Same..However I still give my friends shit when they say stuff like that..sometimes they don't realise what they have said..it may not bother me but it may offend others.

    True.. I have great respect for those men..regardless of what they say. They are doing the world a great deal of good through comedy. :eusa_clap
     
  11. Chip

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    For me it's an issue of laughing with vs laughingat something. I generally find almost all gay jokes funny because, well... I find most of the stereotypes to be truthful. Just the other day one of my friends (who is typically not flamboyant at all) said something, and his inflections and mannerisms were so incredibly "gay" that I just stopped him and said "omg, that's about the gayest outburst I've ever seen you make" and he laughed because he know I was right. Likewise, all of my friends joke about "Gay Standard Time" (which is 2 or 3 hours after whatever the local time is, because the joke is gay guys are notoriously late for everything) and everyone knows it's basically true.

    But the comments about Johnny Weir weren't said in the spirit of good fun. They were said to mock and be mean, and I think that's the difference.
     
  12. dromadus

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    This expression does bother me and a lot. I'm not so out and about anymore, and this term was used without me fully understanding it for a long time.

    It isn't meant to be funny at all, and is not used in the context of something or somebody else that is funny. It means stupid, weird, unpleasant, or some other such idea. It is a definite put down of something else, but using US as the comparison. And it is designed to hurt us.


    That's so Gay = stupid
    That's so Gay = pathetic
    That's so Gay = fucked up
    That's so Gay = loser

    And GAY does not mean stupid pathetic fucked up loser. To quote Frank Kameney who first coined and popularized the phrase "Gay Is Good" 40 years ago:

    That's so Gay = good :eusa_danc
     
  13. Emberstone

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    is that from Laugh In? The one lady with the big voice? not goldie hawn (blech)
     
  14. LostandFound

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    When it comes from a person who I know is homophobic, it does bother me a little. When it comes from friends who have been incredibly supportive, I don't care, it's just a word and words have many different meanings depending on context. I'm not going to get uptight about it and tell them to stop. One friend of mine asked me if it bothered me saying if it did, they wouldn't say it, but I didn't really care, and told them so.

    But I guess it just depends on the person. I hate it when gay people use words like "fag" and "queer" and try and own these derogatory words. We need to put these words to rest, not try and own them in my opinion. But, whatever, I'm not going to get riled about it, words are words, for me it's the motive that counts.
     
  15. Lexington

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    >>>is that from Laugh In? The one lady with the big voice? not goldie hawn (blech)

    Bingo. Joanne Worley. She did a bit on the show where she complained that there were too many chicken jokes on the show, and it was about time somebody stood up for the chickens. It became a running gag on the show for awhile. Whenever somebody would even mention chickens, or turkeys, or any bird, they'd cut to her angrily saying "That better not be another chicken joke!"

    Lex
     
  16. dromadus

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    I understand your point LostandFound. But words grow to mean what people's intentions ARE when they were used. "Gay" originally meant "happy and carefree" until Gertrude Stein used them covertly in a story called "Miss Furr and Miss Skeene" to represent two lesbian women.

    I understand gay people wanting to defang and own words like fag and queer. But I think we should continue the struggle to own words that we use; especially the ones WE use to represent ourselves. I am a homosexual. I prefer to be known as gay. It's shorter, sweeter, friendlier, and well understood.

    There really is a War of Words going on out there. I am rooting for our side (!)(!)(!)
     
  17. I don't get offended, so I don't give a shit about gay jokes. I'll laugh at 'em if they're funny. Still, as much as I believe in free speech, it's retarded that gay people can get away with saying "dyke" and "fag" but straight people can't. It's like black people using the N-word. It's idiotic.
     
  18. LostandFound

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    It might just be because I'm younger and haven't had to live in a time when homosexuality was illegal or anything like that but I don't see any sides and I certainly don't feel like I'm personally on a side. I do not use words like "faggot" and "queer" to represent myself and I just don't personally like it when other gay people use those words to describe a group of people that includes me.
     
  19. dromadus

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    You might be correct in your point of view. I think that our struggle in California over Gay Marriage and Prop 8 was between two sides, however. And I think that They Think of us as queers, fags, fairies, etc.

    I've been struggling for 40 years hoping that what you believe at this moment would someday be true. If it is true, then I'm just slow. But I've voiced my thoughts. Nuff said.

    In any case, I am not discounting what you say. I CELEBRATE you and your words friend.

    :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:ride:
     
  20. the ry guy

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    i say jokes cross the line when they seriously offend someone, other than that it's up to the group your with and everything's fair game. for example, the group i'm currently with u can make a crack about anything as long as its funny, doesn't matter if it's about race, religion, sexual orientation, dead babies, someone's parents/family etc.

    this doesn't make us racist's or bigots, cause were a pretty diverse group and its cool with everybody here (we asked in advance)

    as for whats said and done on tv, it depends on the context in which it is used due to the fact that it's televised it will affect a much larger group of people