'God Hates Fags' Wins Court Appeal

To be honest, while I don't like the whole "loser pays winner's legal fees" aspect of our court system, I support Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church on this one. Freedom of speech is meaningless if it does not include the freedom to say hurtful, offensive, hateful things (excluding libel and incitement to violence*).

If Phelps is free to say what he believes, my freedom to say what I believe is secure. No one, right or left, religiously bigoted or religiously inclusive, likes what he says. We all wish he'd shut up. And no, the fact that he's picketing funerals doesn't change that. If he stays the designated number of feet away (and that number is not insanely high), he needs to be free to do so.

*And to give that hateful SOB what credit he deserves, his church is strongly against violence in the name of God (except to his church members/family, the allegations of abuse within WBC are sickening). Even when physically attacked (and they have been), they do not respond in kind.

 

Freedoms are not absolute.

 

It's sick to give him any kind of credit F*** these people

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and just so you know liam i wasn't trying to attack you cause that's what my post kind of sounded like, these people just really get under my skin. I live in Omaha Nebraska which is only two hours from Topeka Kansas which is where there "headquarters" are so they come to my city all the time and protest at my university, and it makes me so mad. the worst thing is our cops are out there protecting these sick son of bitches. If i were the cops i would "accidentally" leave my post and let the crowd maul them it's what they've been asking for, antagonizing people constantly we should let them get what they deserve.

 

put it this way if i was at my friends funeral or anyones andthey cam protesting his life saying hes goign to hell that he was sick wrong filth....i actually think i might kill them right there :|

for anyone to try and defend hate speech is wrong.

freedom of speech is great for so many things but not to insight blind hate on people based on a religious belief. and i guess it goes down to each persons tolerances but like i say i couldn't of stood at that funeral and not done anything i would of beat them with their own signs.

i think its great the media has come out in support of this man and will cover his fees...ok its good publicity but its an ease of of him and shows he has support which after this horrid ruling i think he needs more than anything.

besides as its been said before these people..what legal fees did they even have? they are hideous vultures who pray on those in pain and upset they undermine and devalue the hard work and sacrifice of thousands, their gods work is blasphemy of the highest order... and im just really happy as i know they'll get theirs some day

i also think its sick that a society would even let you protest in an area like that.

 

Idiot judge. He should have known this is NOT about free speech, its about harassment. The father made that very clear and the first case, which ruled in his favor, got it right. Yes, they have the right to protest, but the harrased him, his family, and posted on their website that his son was gay. So yeah, the case is all messed up.

 

Free speech
vs. harrassment.

hmm...


great.

WBC, ruining people's deaths since 2010

 

Chip, speaking as a Canadian, our Charter of Rights and Freedoms has been tested again and again and it still stands up. It came into being with much screaming and fearmongering, but it's proven both resilient and popular with most Canadians. It helps the courts draw lines in the sand in cases of free speech versus hate speech, because as everyone here has said, there really is no such thing as "free" speech. There is always a line, so it helps to have some guidance as to where that line is.

It's quite interesting to see how it's been applied. There's a famous case of a "holocaust denier" who was tried under the charter and ultimately deported to Germany. Does a person have the right to say that the holocaust was a hoax? The decision was made that in Canada this is considered hate speech. I'm not sure whether any specific hate speech against homosexuals has ever gone through the system here, but it's good to know that this mechanism is in place should it come up.

It's one of the things that makes Canada progressive; while we respect free speech, we know that there are still boundaries and so we give them a legal framework. It doesn't make speech any less free in Canada; it just helps the courts to apply our laws in a manner that reflects the feelings and values of our society.

Bottom line, with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Fred Phelps wouldn't stand a chance in this country - he'd already be serving the second decade of his life sentence. There may be some that see that as a dark cloud over Canada because it limits free speech, but as a gay person I see it as one more reason to love Canada, and as an affirmation that my society sees it fit not to suffer hatred directed at me. It's easy to feel pretty darn proud about a country that says to me through its very laws that it will protect me against intolerance.

 

And they aren't guaranteed either.

 

It's fine to say you hate gays if that is what you believe... But shouldn’t community leaders (like this church) act more responsible? What leaders in America should realise is that their words instigate action. Here in South Africa we have the most perfect example. We have this politician called Julius Malema and most of his fans are Africans (black South Africans). On public gatherings he sings a song called "Kill the Boer" (Boer translates to English as a farmer and also refers to the Afrikaner- white South Africans). Everyday at least one white farmer gets murder in SA. And the reality is that this will never stop unless our politicians stop voicing their own opinions. When you are in a leadership position you should suppress your own believes and give only voice to opinions that will benefit all demographics. The "God hates fags" campaign (I really don't know anything much this. Is it a campaign? I'd like more info on this.) spread the message that it is fine for Christians to hate. And I'm pretty sure that the Bible teaches people to love others like you love yourself (something like that).

 

Freedom of Speech is no absolute. He can say whatever he wants, but when he starts interfering in other peoples lives, it no longer holds to freedom of speech. The constitution says you can assemble peacefully, but what WBC is doing is not peaceful.

 

I'm a big fan of Free speech. I support NOM's gathering storm ads because although the acting is terrible, and although I disagree with the message, they are being civil about it, and if I want others to respect my differing viewpoint, I must be willing to listen the theirs.

However the WBC is way out to lunch. They protest the funerals of fallen service personnel, with a completely unrelated message "God is killing US service personal because the US supports gays" or some such rubbish.

 

Westboro Baptist Backlash: Donations Pour in for Fallen Marine's Father

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20001589-504083.html

 

But those weren't viewpoints, they were straight up lies.

 

Yeah, as a Christian with a degree in theology, I find WBC offensive, and it would be laughable if it wasn't causing so much damage. I don't know anyone who takes it seriously.

 

closer to 1990...

i think it depends - if phelps was ruining the harmony of the funeral (by being on/around the funeral site) its harrasment.
if he was outside/around the area its freedom of speech.

 

...What I don't understand is why someone would want to picket a funeral. A FUNERAL... Obviously the WBC would be furious if someone picketed one of their member's funerals. So why do they do that? It's bad enough someone DIED. Idiotic people with air between their ears.