Madrid Gay Pride March Bans Israelis

Its not ok to ban Israel from the march.

 

It's not okay to ban anyone from anything..usually.

For example, it's okay to ban Nazis from living.

 

Anti-semites.

 

No, they weren't doing it because they're Jewish.

 

well it's their right to ban israel just like it's israels right to oppress and invade land that isn't theirs

 

well i dont think we should exclude people cos thats what happens to us it aint nice...but when you have people who are well pretty nasty i dunno...but pride shouldn't be a political event its about being lgbt and being proud of the fact.

 

On the contrary, I would say it is anti semetic. It's evidence of double standards. When the Israelis try to defend their land, they're condemned, but when you have evidence of the Arabs happily blowing themselves up in supermarkets and such, or the PLO launching rockets into Israel, nothing is said. This 'one rule for you and another rule for them' is racist. Israel has every right to defend itself.

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Not a good point. Israel has every right to exist. The Palestinians elected terrorists to be their representatives, and thus Israel shall treat them as such. They have only themselves to blame.

 

mulsims and pro-palistinian people complained and threatened. thats why they declined to let the group in.

then again, spain was the leader for anti-semitisem for centuries, until germany took up the task. Should we really be surprised?

 

I'm not saying what isreal did was wrong and they were simply defending themselves but there are other ways to defeat terrorists without killing innocents, assasinations etc there are many things they could have tried before invading

 

No, you don't understand. Antisemitism is when someone hates another for being Jewish. It has nothing to do with what country their from. Not all Israelis are Jewish, but they are still banning all Israelis. Not because of their faith or bloodline, but because of the actions of the country of Israel in an act to defend itself. It's not antisemitic, just..xenophobic.

You really have no idea what the Gaza-Israeli situation is do you?

First of all, Gaza sends in multiple random missiles into Israel for no reason other than that Israel is Israel. So, in order to stop the pointless bombing in Israeli cities, they blockaded Gaza so they wouldn't get any more missiles. So far it has worked, a few are still sent in from Egypt through smuggling.

Second, the Gaza strip was Israeli land before it was a country. The only reason it's now it's own country is because it became a city full of Hamas, a Muslim terrorist group bent on the destruction of Israel. That same group is now the government of the Gaza strip.

Bombings from Gaza were so common in Southern Israel that bomb sirens there are more common than tornado sirens in the Midwestern US.

Israel used to send in supplies to the Gaza Strip for citizen, and allowed refugees back into Israel. The people of Gaza Strip all hate Israel, and Judaism in general that they would rather stay in Gaza, and the supply vehicles sent in were always attacked by Hamas.

I completely support Israel and it's decisions..mostly. They could be doing things better.

 

The problem with this line of reasoning is that it's completely decontextualized. Up to the first half of the twentieth century, the territory where Israel stands nowadays, belonged to Palestina. When England and France usurped those lands (and others around Asia) many members of the zionist movement (that is, the people who fought for the creation of an independent Jewish state) cooperated with them in the repression and killing of many Palestinians. The state of Israel was approved by the United Nations (which, needless to say, ultimately favours those nations in power, the United States and Western Europe in this case) in 1948, leaving Palestinians less than a half of the territory that was previously theirs. This doesn't mean that I approve Palestinian children blowing themselves up in Israeli supermarkets; I find all losses of innocent lives extremely saddening, but simply saying 'violence is wrong no matter what' in an attempt to seem neutral ultimately masks the terribly unequal and unfair relation between the two parts in conflict.

Let's not confuse antisemitism (the hatred towards Jews for the sole reason of their origins and religion) with anti-Zionism (the opposition to the policies resulting in Israel's oppression of Palestinians). As a matter of fact, I'm Jewish and I know plenty of Jewish people (who are more religious than me, I'm actually agnostic) that are ashamed of Israel's policies and strongly condemn then.

 

It sounds like you only have one side of the story .

 

But the simple fact of the matter is, that the Israelis are doing a far better job at governing than any arabic country in the middle east. They're the most democratic, the most free and they have some of the highest living standards in the world. I care not that the Palestinians were there first; the thing is, if they were governing, it would be just another deplorable little despotic islamic republic, and that is not something I wish to see. If anything, Israel should be allowed to grow and prosper. If the Palestinians do not agree with the agenda of freedom, or if they want to act as a detriment to it, then they should be removed. I have no issue with that whatsoever. Israel should be held as a shining example for Middle Eastern countries. And yes, I do think anti semitism comes into it, as it is often used as the main force of ill feeling towards them, which is masked by hypocrisy of argument (by bringing up the 'plight' of the Palestinians) and other ill contextualised examples, such as Israeli self defense. Thus, I both maintain that Israel should be allowed to do what it needs to do to protect the freedoms its citizens enjoy BUT also we should be praising Israel for its firm stance in the face of the Hamas terrorist organisation and discouraging people from trying to break the blockade, as it only strengthens the case of terrorists.

 

That has nothing to do with Madrid being anti-semitic.

You do know, Madrid is in Spain right? That's Europe, not the Middle East.

Also, saying they're better governed just because they're free and democratic is extremely biased. :3 Just saying

 

I'm pointing out the weakness of the Spainish argument that what the Israeli's did was wrong, thus proving that such criticism of israel could potentially be anti-semitic, thereby relating it to the Madrid incident. Perhaps instead of trying to augment my European geographical knowledge (which is rather outstanding, thankyou), you should follow my arguments, and see that indeed the decision to prevent the Israeli's from partaking in the parade is wrong.

Also, in response to the last point, it appears that there is a corrolation with quality of life and the wealth of a country with its level of democracy and secularisation. My Western bias doesn't change the facts. Just saying.

 

I'll begin by saying that I believe Israel is guilty of terrible injustices in the Middle East. Yes, Israel may be a powerful, prosperous country (thanks to lots of aid given to them by the US), but that hardly gives them the right to oppress the people of Palestine in the way that they are. The settlements and the conditions in Gaza are terrible, practically break international law, and need things need to be done about Israel's actions. Also, Hamas wouldn't be in power if it weren't for the way Israel treats Palestine. People growing up in a community of suffering and poverty brought on by Israel are going to be opposed to Israel, sometimes even violently so. Part of why this situation is so frustrating is because the Western media is so full of pro-Israel propaganda. Before you condemn Palestine (which is, frankly, crazy, I can understand saying you don't want to condemn Israel...but saying Palestinians deserve the way they're being treated...nobody deserves that) educate yourself a little. Watch the video Occupation 101, I'll admit, it's pro-Palestinian propaganda, but it'll help you look at it from both sides anyways.


All the aside, this is a completely ridiculous gesture on Madrid's part, and comes from a very uneducated point of view. First off, I'm sure not every Israeli agree's with their country's policies...it'd almost be like banning Ugandans because homosexuality has a death penalty there. Second off, while I'm sure you couldn't even begin to list what Israel has done wrong in the middle east, the flotilla really wasn't their fault. From everything I hear that's credible, the IDF repeatedly asked the flotilla to dock in an Israeli city for inspection, and it ignored them. Soldiers parachuted onto the flotilla, people on the flotilla reacted violenty. People were killed, which shouldn't be surprising: when people act violent towards soldiers, they're gonna get hurt.

 

The parade is about being proud of who you are. There was no need to bring the Arab-Israeli conflict into the mix.

Just because their country supports the subjugation of the Palestinians doesn't mean that the pride people do. I know many Israelis, and not all of them support the actions of their country. From what I understand, they're the minority, but nevertheless, it's irrelevant to the pride parade.

 

In my book, 'free' and 'democratic' are adjectives that do not apply to a country that authoritatively establishes itself on a land that doesn’t belong to them and massacres the original habitants.

Palestina is what it is nowadays not least because of being continually invaded and economically blocked all throughout the 20th centry. Besides, with that line of thought one could say the same about most countries in the world, the United States of America, perhaps? Unless you consider torturing people in Guantanamo something 'free' and 'democratic' as well. Seriously, let the one without sin cast the first stone...

Should I take that as ''if Palestinians do not agree with being divested of their lands for the sake of Israel and friends' growth, they should be slaughtered''? That sounds so... democratic. Again, things have to be put in context. If I told you I sent my kids to a wonderful school, give them love and everything they need, you’d say I'm a superb father. But if you learned afterwards that those kids were robbed, and that the money I use for their education is obtained by swindling people of their savings, it'd be a whole different story. My point is: yes, Israel has better living standards than other Eastern countries, but how did they get that?

If some nazi wants to jump into the discussion simply to bash Jews, he's just an idiot who's not worth any time. But accusing everyone who critizes Israel's policies of being an antisemite is a very manipulative strategy. It's like calling 'racist' everyone who disagrees with Obama.