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The Political Climate and Gay Rights

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Leon481, Sep 4, 2010.

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  1. Leon481

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    (http://www.emptyclosets.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38302)

    In a previous derailed thread (see above link) an interesting argument cropped up that deserves more discussion.

    The argument basically came down to this:
    Republicans vs. Democrats, Conservatives Vs. Liberals.

    Have the democrats and liberals really been on our side and doing everything they can for gay rights, or are they just doing what is necessary to secure the gay vote and nothing more? Have they done as much for us as people give them credit for, or is it all just meaningless placating?

    Similar questions on the other end. Are the conservatives and republicans really out to take our rights away or is it all just political posturing to gain the religious vote? Are they making a serious attempt to hurt us, or are the just doing the minimum to placate the religious voters?

    In reality does either side even care about our rights one way or another or do they not care what rights we have or don't have as long as it doesn't interfere with their careers?

    So discuss. What does everyone around here think? Remember to keep it civil. The mods are always watching.:lol:
     
  2. RedState

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    Ok.
    The Republicans on Capitol Hill run from the issue.
    The Democrats on Capitol Hill mock the gays behind their backs, and I might add, openly laugh about them.

    I've been on an elevator with a democratic US senator from the west when they said, "as long as we throw them a bone once in a while, we got the Fag vote"

    I know alot of you hate me...but this is not opinion...these are things I have seen with my own eyes.

    So...what is worse?
     
    #2 RedState, Sep 4, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
  3. Leon481

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    We don't all hate you. It was actually some of your comments that got me interested in this discussion. You said you've worked in Washington which is not a side of things you get to hear too often in a public forum so it was rather interesting to get an insider's honest perspective. Do you know anymore about what goes on up there when it comes to these issues? It would be nice to hear more from someone who has seen these things first hand instead of just the warrantless speculation and BS we hear everywhere else.
     
  4. RedState

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    Been working up there for 6 years...been in politics longer than that. So yeah, I think I've got a pretty good insight on what really goes on, other than what the talking points and talking heads lead you to believe.

    The thing is, I am privy to a lot of information that the general public is not aware of...which i would be glad to share here.
     
  5. Leon481

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    I'd love to hear what you have to say. I'm sure more than a few people here feel the same way. Even though I don't currently take an active role in politics the whole situation up there is fascinating to me.

    I actually have a lot of questions but I guess for starters, back on topic, the gay rights scenario. Is it something that gets actively discussed and worked on up there, or is it just something that tends to get left aside until election campaigns or some huge issue arises?
     
  6. RedState

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    Gay rights an active topic in DC?
    Really?

    It is never a topic. NEVER.

    I keep telling people that the Dems are using the Gays just for votes...Goddamn they openly laugh about it in DC. I've seen it wit my own eyes.

    Which is why I find it so comical when some people on these fourms take the stance that the Dem are doing everthing they can. No they are not.

    they are taking your money...and doing nothing.

    They laugh about that too.

    The Democrats realize that they can not win nationally with the "gay" tag. So they are doing their best to lose it before the fall elections.
     
  7. Leon481

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    Well, that's about what I expected actually.

    So the democrats are trying to drop the gay friendly label now huh? Well, it's nice to have advance warning I guess, but how exactly do they plan to do that wthout pissing a lot of people off?
     
  8. Revan

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    Bamaboy, I don't hate you, I just find you very arrogant when you claim the Republicans are doing nothing wrong and such and constantly attacking the Democrats.
     
  9. Danielle

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    I don't think he is saying that the Republicans are perfect and he is right as the Democrats have a majority in both the house and the senate and the White House.

    Even if he was being completely partisan it would be no different from any of the Liberals on this forum that constantly bash the Republican Party and automatically think they are bigots.
     
  10. ANightDude

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    This. Neither Arguement is fair. Many of the liberals on this board are biased, as well as the republicans on here. It's hard to take any side seriously.

    And working in Washington means nothing to me personally. You can work there for 10 years, but you still see it in the eyes of a Republican or Democrat.
     
  11. Alex19

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    none of this is news. everyone in the government is a backstabbing greedy im-out-for-power whore. they dont care about anyone but themselves- not even eachother

    and if they arent, they get killed cause they become a threat to the other ppls wallets
     
  12. RedState

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    When, have I ever, stated that the Republicans have done nothing wrong?

    I think I have stated time and time again that they have their own problems as well.

    And, I don't consider it arrogance at all....I call it confidence. Confidence in knowing you are right :slight_smile:
     
  13. Kevin42

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    I feel that for the most part, Democrats "support" gay rights in the same way that Republicans "support" the pro-life movement. All talk, very little true concern or action.
     
  14. Charme

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    Those are very interesting questions! I've never really thought of Republicans just doing the things they do just to get the religious vote. c'est la politique I guess.

    Considering this new view point, I would imagine that no one in their right mind would devote so much effort to truly attempt to hurt us just to do it.
     
  15. Gaetan

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    I'm sure there are some who do.

    -----------

    Still, I do agree that the Democrats support us for our votes. They do just enough for us to keep that. They occasionally, "throw us a bone" to keep us supporting them as was said.

    However, that really goes for any special interest group or minority. They want our votes and money, and will do just enough--just enough--to get both of those.

    That goes for Republicans, Democrats, Independents, and all the other parties. They are in the game to be reelected and make themselves money, not to please all the subgroups of their constituents. They keep and break enough promises to keep themselves employed. That is what politics is--treading that fine line of keeping everyone happy while still trying to stab them in the back.


    Yet, I still vote Democrat. Why? As important as we make ourselves out to be, we are a minority. There are bigger issues out there, and I agree more with how the liberals handle things than the conservatives. Governments were created to serve the common good of the people, and in my view that means more programs like universal healthcare or social security, to name just a few. I feel that, in general, the Democrats do a better job than the Republicans.

    So, really, I wouldn't look to the legislatures to get anything done on our behalf. I feel we're more likely to get our liberties from the courts.

    And, anyway, I'll still aim for the group that throws us the occasional bone than the group that targets the demographic that is the religious extremists who want to use us as target practice for their second amendment rights.
     
  16. Revan

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    Knowing you're right...yes...I'm sure you're "right" :slight_smile:
     
  17. Emberstone

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    it should be noted, that was one of the big reasons why the founding fathers created the court system in the first place.

    History shows that the modern republican movement works for the benifit of the coorproations and the wealthy.

    history also shows the modern democratic movement works for the benifit of the lower and middle class, and the oppressed.

    History shows that the modern democrats are the ones who push for civil equality, freedoms, and liberties *except for gun ownership* more so than any other political establisment in america, and usually, the world, where liberals are the ones making progress for democracy.

    history shows that modern republicans are the ones fighting against equality, civil liberties *except for gun ownership*, and freedom. In the world, it is the conservatives that fight against democracy, and push religious oppressocracy *portmantu, look it up.*

    Goverment is suposed to be for the people, not for the rich people. It is suposed to ensure that everyone is on a even feild that gives all the oppertunity to make a place for themselves and advance. As it is, the rich got richer in this republican led economic collapse *they controlled all three branches of goverment, removed a buttload of taxes from huge coorporations that gave the party huge donations, after deregulating rules for those companies as payment for the donations, and opened the doors wide open by removing regulations created to prevent greed and corruption from having such a negative effect on the econamy.

    democrats arent spreading the wealth... they are ensuring the wealthy dont pull a frickan french nobility pre basttile on us! Republicans dont want the middle class to be strong, because as the middle class grows weaker, the wealthy grow stronger. this happens through people like carly fiorina giving herself a huge pay raise as ceo by laying off thousands of workers and shipping their jobs oversea where they pay considerablly less. She is a typical republican in her beliefs on how the world works... and they expect us to believe they care about creating jobs. they have fought every measure to create jobs since losing power, all so they can lie about it being the democrats fault that jobs are not being created, even though more jobs have been created in obama's first just over year and a half, than in the whole of bush's eight years in office.

    Bama, you can claim to be right, but history and fact says your wrong. You are 'right-wing', but not right.

    Under clinton, even though he couldnt keep his friggan belt buckled, he left us with a stable, balanced budget, a surplus, and the strongest middle class we had seen in a long time.

    republicans increased goverment spending like crazy, destoryed the middle class, and devalued the american econamy to the point that the entire world economic system took a downturn. That is what historical fact and record shows.

    live with it... or not, and live in a fantasy world.
     
  18. RedState

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  19. Emberstone

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    trying to keep this civil, and out of flameland, but for someone who makes a claim over the internet that they work for the goverment, they really only show a desire to keep the status quo of what is screwed up about washington politics.

    The democrats do not have limitless power here. The world is not divided up between far right, and far left. There are many politicians who lie in the middle of the spectrum, which is far from black and white, and walk a precarious line called 'centerist policy'. There are democrats against gay marriage, and republicans for it. There are democrats who have issue with abortion rights, and republicans who support pro-choice.

    Just because the right wing has put a road block in lgbt legislation consistantly, not to mention blocking efforts to help stimulate job growth, protect the rights of the middle class, doesnt mean that the democrats are being lazy.

    We have basically a hostle juror in the congress, and it calls itself the Grand Old Party. From the moment obama was elected, they started blaiming him for everything, even before he had any real authority, I.E. having taken the oath of office, and had the authority of the executive branch transitioned to him. From the moment he took office, the republicans have fought to block everything he has tried to do for america. It is only the democrats right now who are actually trying to fix the faults dropped in america's lap by the republican controlled congress of the bush years.

    During this, he has advocated for us. he has worked to get ENDA passed, and DADT repealed, and it should be noted, the roadblock has been republicans.

    It is not for lack of trying on the part of the Democrats, who are basically the only ones who can take credit for the fact that our econamy is stabilizing. job loss is slowing considerably, and we have created more jobs in less than two years under obama than in the whole of the bush administration's 8 years.

    With that much on the plate of the legislative branch, which is the one responcible for legislation, hence the name, it is remarkable that they even have found time to fight for ENDA and DADT.

    They have dont more for us as a community than the republican party ever has.

    No doubt bamaboy will come on, make a claim that he is always right, and blame the democrats further for the stalling happening on capital hill. What he doesnt want to acknowledge is that the stalling on capital hill is not coming from the democrats, it is coming from the 'Party of NO' that has made it their clear, and spoken mission, stating directly and boldly, to stop obama from having any sucess as president. They dont hide it. it is not just partisan pundits saying they want obama to fail, it is politicians of the GOP themselves.

    I support obama, because he stands up for america. He stands up for the constitution (bush and the republicans alone tried 131 times during his presidency to ammend the constitution, including to take existing rights away from lgbt people granted by some stats, such as the freedom and right to marry!) He doesnt back down from calling out and holding coorporations responcible for the actions of their corruption and greed. He may have his own reservations over gay marriage, but he has also made it clear that he will not as president work, like republicans do, to deny us our equal rights.

    And he has had to do this under a constant onslaught of conspiracy theory laced hatred from the GOP from claims of his secret muslimness, to claims he wasent born in the united states, both of which have been systematicly, and repeatedly proven to be false.

    We have a ally in the white house. But he has had to deal with more problems coming into office than any president except in the earliest years of our democratic, constitutional republic goverment. The fact that he and the democrats have worked on issues relating to LGBT (only to be stoped at every turn by the 'Party of "HELL NO"' <See john boehner rant to that effect) is more than we can say about many presidents, democratic and otherwise.

    There are just too many people who dont want to accept that mccain, the biggest flip flopper in the history of american politics, lost. he went from being a moderate to being a far right wing nutjob. he reversed a great deal of his views on economcs, taxes, border security, and immigration to appeal to the vocal, and dangerous far right extremist fringes.

    If anyone thinks that mccain would have been a more effective LGBT ally, they are mental.
     
    #19 Emberstone, Sep 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2010
  20. Mirko

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    Um..... let me make this very clear. If I read anywhere on a post or a thread an attack on another member, that member who makes the attack or tries to provoke a response or an argument, can expect to have their privileges removed.

    I hope this is clear enough and that I don't have to act on it.

     
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