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Mormons Soften Language On Gays

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Dan82, Nov 13, 2010.

  1. Dan82

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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/13/mormons-soften-language-o_n_782959.html

     
  2. Zach1992

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    As long as you never have sex with guy then you're fine! I don't really see how this is softened language...
     
  3. Emberstone

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    I havent read the manual *arent they ultra secrative, only the really rich, top level people get the full doctrine?*, but being gay is not a behavior. behavior is something you choose to do... orientation is who you are.
     
  4. Chip

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    Well, it's a tiny, tiny step. Perhaps they knew that if they didn't say *something* they'd have no defense against the (rightful) charges that they are directly responsible for a lot of suicides. But my guess is the elders are so full of bigotry and hatred and fear that there won't be any meaningful change until it's forced (by the government) or until the current generation of elders dies and is replaced by ones with more common sense.
     
  5. Emberstone

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    for such a ultra far wing movement, I dont think it would matter if a new generation will move in, because I suspect the church itself will never let a elder with tolerent views be put into that post... expecially since it seems the elder system at times is deeply political and patriarcal, with the position generally staying within the hereditary power system that exists at the deepest levels of both LDS and FLDS.
     
  6. IsItSo

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    The government has no authority to force the LDS church to change its stance.
     
  7. Chip

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    Not so.

    The Mormon Church considered black people to be "subhuman" and were vocal and adamant about that stance.

    The IRS ruled this to be discrimination in violation of applicable laws, and threatened to strip the church of its nonprofit status. The church fought and lost.

    A few days before the church was to be stripped of its nonprofit status, miraculously, the Living Prophet had a "revelation" in a "communication with God" that black people were wonderful and every bit as "human" as white people and... accepted them as equals.

    Of course, this revelation from God had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they were about to lose all of their tax exemption benefits. :slight_smile:

    So... at some point, gays and lesbians will have the same protections. And the bigots in the Mormon Church will, once again, have to change their tune.
     
  8. Zach1992

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    Yes the Gov't can sway their beliefs by holding their nonprofit status over their head, but they don't HAVE to change their thinking.
     
  9. Emberstone

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    That is why I think tax exmept status should not go to religious conglomerates. Dont be fooled, the mormon church is a industry.
     
  10. RedState

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    No....That would be the Free Masons...just look at the design of Washington.

    Although you have to admire the prolific designs of the street system in DC the Masons created...because the street system does reflect the city of Washington itself...they all go in circles.

    The Free Masons are part of the grand conspiracy to rule the world you know. Doesn't everyone know this by now?
     
    #10 RedState, Nov 13, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2010
  11. Moonstrike

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    Gays dont have souls.

    PRAISE JESUS.
     
  12. kem

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  13. ArcaneVerse

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    First, a question: Do you have any proof that the church was threatened with the revoking of its tax exemption, because I cant seem to find anything other then little bits about being under pressure from the government?

    Secondly: While I respect your right to have an opinion, to just simply say that the church has been openly and still is secretly racist is not completely true, nor is it a fair statement. I also wish to point out that this post is just my opinion on this subject, another perspective if you will, one that I feel is more just.

    The Mormon church has always allowed non whites to become members, which is something that wasn't done elsewhere in those times and is part of the reason they where driven out and hated so much.

    Also around the time of Joseph Smith and the forming of the church, Non whites were allowed to and did hold the priesthood. Elijah Abel was in fact the first black elder and one of the Seventy. There was however a ban implemented that barred non whites from holding the priesthood, which I cant seem to find much information on apart from that it was put in place by Brigham Young.

    Another thing that needs to be added to show the other side of the argument is that, while it is possible they just "happened" to receive a revelation at the time they were being threatened by the government to change their beliefs, its also very possible that they received the revelation at that time because it was the right moment to implement a great change in the church. The whole process was, from the churches perspective, lengthy and in-depth and was not taken lightly.

    In the 1960's they attracted immense pressure in regards to their stance on civil rights and they didn't change their beliefs then, so why would they fold when it came to allowing all men to hold the priesthood, especially when they were receiving less negative attention and pressure from the government then they did in the 1960's?

    The church has had and still maintains now an extremely high number of non white members who know what the Mormons believe and the churches history, cant have been too racist now can they? don't see a whole lot of blacks in the KKK and other such racist groups huh?

    No the church is not like that for the most part when it comes to its doctrine, but I believe there are numerous revelations that are kept locked away, that the church and the world are not ready for, which only the churches President has knowledge of and he also has to live by what they say.

    Interesting bit of information it is said that Joseph Smith was a Free Mason.
     
  14. Emberstone

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    so... basically exactly as I said. to get the full docterine, you have to be at the top.
     
  15. ArcaneVerse

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    Yes and no. by your original wording, which resembled a more Scientology type of system, one of exclusion and deep secrecy, a hierarchy which caters to those who have wealth and power, it doesn't really describe the Mormon church.

    Your second wording however is more accurate, you have to be the head of the church to have the "full doctrine". The highest position of power comes with great responsibility.
     
  16. Emberstone

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    the mormon church still has a long history of exclusionisem... of course, so do other churches, including the catholic, and some protestant denominations.
     
  17. stad90

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    Just a side note: anyone can read the manual. They sell it in the church stores. I was reading it today lol
     
  18. Chip

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    I have seen better documentation than this, but it's the only thing I can find with a one-minute search

    http://mormonmatters.org/2009/09/26/the-church-and-the-irs/

    Additionally, this fact is apparently pretty well known and acknowledged by Mormons I've spoken to about it.

    And let's not forget that these folks are well steeped in improbable hypocrisy, such as the original papers being taken and Joseph Smith making some bogus claim about how God told him that because the originals had been questioned, He was going to reword them, when the more likely story is that Joseph Smith made up the first one and couldn't remember word-for-word what he'd written. So the members of the church, given that, are likely to believe almost anything.

    I don't think there's a dispute that the Church has a long history of racism and segregation. That's what the lawsuits that resulted in the IRS rulings were about. To be fair, Jerry Falwell was also preaching, back in the 1950s, that the Bible supported segregation. I don't think I said they are still that way; I don't know if they are.


    Of course that's possible. And I'm sure that's their claim. But as I said, the Church has a long history of ridiculous stories, improbable coincidences and timing that makes it suspect.
     
  19. Emberstone

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    I dont even thing african americans were allowed to be in the church until the mid 1970's.
     
  20. ArcaneVerse

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    I just don't think its fair nor 100% correct to just say they have a racist history because its leaving out important facts, which I stated above.

    For a long time a huge majority of America was racist, so of course a church that was around in those times is going to have some history with racism, just like every other church, business, person etc. that was around then.

    Its just not right to focus on that one point, while excluding other facts like when no other "white" church allowed black people to attend their church, the Mormon church did.

    What church or religion doesn't have a long history of ridiculous stories in the eyes of those who don't believe? It's easy to twist everything to suit your own bias.

    If you read my post I stated that the Mormons always allowed African Americans to attend their church and I also listed the name of the first black Elder, Elijah Abel, in 1836 and was made one of the seventy in 1839.