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Anglicans/Episcopalians go Catholic over Gay-Marriage

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Fintan, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. Fintan

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    Calgary Anglican parish accepts Pope’s offer to join Rome


    An ENTIRE Church in Canada opts to go Catholic and leave the Worldwide Anglican/Episcopalian Church over Female Priests and Gay-Marriage. If this becomes a trend it might make other churches think twice before accepting gay-marriage. A few parishes in England have done this as well, but I think this is the first in North America.

    This doesn't bode well for the future of the increasing number of churches welcoming & accepting the gay community.
     
  2. zeratul

    zeratul Guest

    To me the logical next step for a gay person is to abandon religion. They may say that god forgives sinners. But I do not think I agree that you are committing a sin. Also I do not believe that there is a conscious god. God is the fabric of space-time and the laws of nature. There is no evidence to suggest that god has a personality.

    Might as well let these people go do whatever they want.
     
  3. Fintan

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    That might work for you, but with 1 in 3 people being Christians, the Anglican/Episcopal Church has been leading the way for Christian LGBT people as it is the largest Christian denomination which is stating that homosexuality is not a sin.

    To me, abandoning my faith simply seems repugnant. And why should I be forced to abandon my faith because of others?
     
  4. maverick

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    Anyone who would abandon their faith over secular progress in the church hierarchy that advocates human and women's rights isn't much of a Christian to begin with in my opinion.

    "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did to one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did to me." ~ Matthew 25:40
     
  5. zeratul

    zeratul Guest

    Yes but you see you can also quote the bible telling a man not to lie with another man, specifically.

    Just from this point of view my impression of Christianity is that it is based on a contradictory book that creates so many factions and conflicts depending on what package of passages you select.

    I support ppl who are spiritual, but I think they need to understand that sprituality is a higher state of mind that is abstract from religion. It is a set of hopes and fantasies that is private and distinct to each individual.
     
  6. maverick

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    AMEN.

    I am a very spiritual person and claim a religion, but I consider myself more secular than religious.
     
  7. Fintan

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    I just worry about what this means for the future of religious communities accepting gay and lesbian people.

    You can say it shouldn't matter. But the fact is that it matters to more people than it doesn't.

    I hope the Anglican/Episcopalian Church stands strong and continues on the path of acceptance that they have been following. I hope this move doesn't make them think twice, step back or halt the progress they are making. It matters to far too many people for that to happen.
     
  8. zeratul

    zeratul Guest

    Well, take a look at each popular faction of Christianity today, which of them did not begin as heretics persecuted by the established order? If you want to see something happen, you have to do something about it, and you need powerful forces backing it.

    The anglican church was backed by Henry VIII who killed everyone that dared dispute his position as supreme head, the lutheran church was backed by the member duchies and kingdoms of some of the holy roman empire. Today, the Church of England's leadership is doing its best to bring about enlightenment, but because the church spans various parts of the world with different ignorant and conservative cultures, they have to make concessions on issues like this.
     
    #8 zeratul, Jan 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2011
  9. MIJ VI

    MIJ VI Guest

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    IMO if they want to go, then let them go. No one is served well by false friends anyway.

    Besides. It's not like individual parishioners and free thinkers can't make their own choices. I did...
     
  10. Alex19

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    i used to be kind of religious.. but then i geared away from it because of its bullshit.. but to tell the truth i feel more in between. agnostic def, but i guess u can say i want to believe in a good god cuz i want one to exist in the first place and right the wrongs, so to speak.

    it all goes to the evil in the world- i dont want to believe that people will get away with all the evil stuff they do to other people. sometimes i cant help but feel that thats why some ppl r religious. truth is, there is a possibility for no god and that once ur times up, its up. all i can say is this: my philosophy on life to do have as much fun as you can, do what you want (so long a it isnt harmful to self or others) and be the best possible person you can be. if u wanna believe in a god or none at all, thats all you. can i get an AMEN? loll
     
  11. Fintan

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    I just worry that this is going to bolster the Anglican/Episcopalian conservative-wing that want to stop the progress that has been made in regards to gay-marriage. Despite what anyone thinks (or wants), the Church has a lot of sway over what is considered morally acceptable or not in many Western Societies (even over non-Church goers), and LGBT people would live much better lives if more churches followed the path that the Anglican/Episcopalian Church has been on...

    I just hope that they don't turn around now that they are threatened with losing congregants and possibly church properties.

    Stay brave and stick it out for us. That's what Jesus would do.
     
  12. zeratul

    zeratul Guest


    You know I always find Wiccans (some form of pagan religion) to be very poetic, and so you may find it interesting too. Their attitude as expressed in the Wiccan's Creed is basically what you are saying about your philosophy.

    Hear now the words of the witches,
    The secrets we hid in the night,
    When dark was our destiny’s pathway,
    That now we bring forth into light.

    Mysterious water and fire,
    The earth and the wide-ranging air,
    By hidden quintessence we know them,
    And will and keep silent and dare.

    The birth and rebirth of all nature,
    The passing of winter and spring,
    We share with the life universal,
    Rejoice in the magical ring.

    Four times in the year the Great Sabbat
    Returns, and witches are seen
    At Lammas, and Candlemas dancing,
    On May Eve and old Hallowe’en.

    When day-time and night-time are equal,
    When the sun is at greatest and least,
    The four Lesser Sabbats are summoned,
    Again witches gather in feast.

    Thirteen silver moons in a year are,
    Thirteen is the coven's array.
    Thirteen times as Esbat make merry,
    For each golden year and a day.

    The power was passed down the ages,
    Each time between woman and man,
    Each century unto the other,
    Ere time and the ages began.

    When drawn is the magical circle,
    By sword or athame or power,
    Its compass between the two worlds lie,
    In Land of the Shades for that hour.

    This world has no right then to know it,
    And world beyond will tell naught,
    The oldest of Gods are invoked there,
    The Great Work of magic is wrought.

    For two are the mystical pillars,
    That stand to at the gate of the shrine,
    And two are the powers of nature,
    The forms and the forces divine.

    The dark and the light in succession,
    The opposites each unto each,
    Shown forth as a God and a Goddess,
    Of this did our ancestors teach.

    By night he’s the wild wind’s rider,
    The Horn’d One, the Lord of the shades,
    By day he’s the King of the Woodlands,
    The dweller in green forest glades.

    She is youthful or old as she pleases,
    She sails the torn clouds in her barque,
    The bright silver lady of midnight,
    The crone who weaves spells in the dark.

    The master and mistress of magic,
    They dwell in the deeps of the mind,
    Immortal and ever-renewing,
    With power to free or to bind.

    So drink the good wine to the Old Gods,
    And dance and make love in their praise,
    Til Elphame's fair land shall receive us,
    In peace at the end of our days.

    An Do What You Will be the challenge,
    So be it in Love that harms none,
    For this is the only commandment,
    By Magick of old, be it done.

    Eight words the Witches’ Creed fulfill:
    If it harms none, do what you will.
     
  13. MIJ VI

    MIJ VI Guest

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    1) Religious meddling in affairs of state is the primary impediment to the enactment of legislation enabling equal marriage.

    2) If they do then that action will define the worth of the spiritual security blanket they offered to their parishioners.
     
  14. Fintan

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    I totally agree.

    Someone recently told me that this could speed up the Anglican/Episcopalian church's move to a liberal stance on homosexuality because the hard-core conservatives a bailing.... who knows maybe he is right?
     
  15. MIJ VI

    MIJ VI Guest

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    It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out. The end result should be fewer moments of discomfort during sermons for all involved.
     
  16. padre411

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    The fallout over this in the Episcopal church in the United States is pretty much over. The loss has totaled about 3 percent of our membership. I am aware of only one property not returned to the diocese on appeal. It was a parish in South Carolina which was founded before the Episcopal Church was incorporated.

    As Presiding Bishop Katherine Jefferts-Schori makes clear, dioceses have not left and parishes have not left. People have left which we grieve but that is their prerogative.

    The parishes and the diocese continue.

    In my case I came out to my parish in October. My outing actually began in February because someone snooped in my laptop. The parish grew 5.8 percent in 2010, the first increase in 10 years.