Obama sees opening in social-issue split

Obama you sneaky betch.

 

i'm sure as hell voting for obama next election i would actually like to see him go for another 4 years

 

I still think that in the end, the republican party will implode itself. It is as impulsive as a jellyfish right now, and has as much brain power as one too. You have Scott Walker, who despite the fact that even a sizable portion of the republican voter base in wisconsin were against his attempts to destroy the rights of workers, went forward and used sneaky tactics to deny worker's rights (and broke a wisconsin state law in the process). People are now touting him as a 2012 cannidate... which means four more years of Obama.

then you got newt, who porked his mistress, divorced his first wife on her death bed, married said mistress, porked another mistress, divorced his first mistress wife, and married his new mistress... he is touting himself as a social conservative who stands up and exemplafies the ideal of 'family values'... again, he means four more years of obama.

Then you go mike huckabee, who is attacking natalie portman for daring to be a female who is not controlled by a christio-facist belief system. He is making incorrect claims that obama lived in kenya and gets all his ideas from his paternal grandfather (ignoring the fact that one of his maternal grandfathers, who unlike his father's side, he actually had contact with, and was raised by, faught with Patton, and was a celebrated war hero). He may win the fundie christian vote, but independents are more thoughtful with their votes than to vote for a hypocritical facist like huckabee... so again, four more years of obama in the bag.

Then there is Sarah Palin, who speaks only in grossly oversimplified generalities, and has never given proof that she has the brain compacity to understand the specifics of the incrediants for orange juice, let alone the contents of the federal constitution... a women who trashes people for having the audacity not to view her favorable because her opinion of herself is more stuck-up than marie attonette's... again, four more years of obama.

God bless the republicans... they will save america by the fact that they will lose their bid for the white house, allowing us to return to a america run by advocates for the people, not koch suckers who punish the middle class for the SIN OF BEING MIDDLE CLASS, and denegrate women, veterens, the elderly, our youth, and people who believe religious freedom applies to all, not just christo-facists.

 

My dad is always flabbergasted when I say I'm still going to vote for Obama. He acts like he has done nothing.

 

he has done things republicans have not done for 30-40 years. Republicans do not create jobs. but in the first year and a half of obama alone, more jobs were created than the whole 8 years of bush. We actually are seeing the econamy improve, and that was with the republicans fighting and trying to destory any effort from the democrats (who have the only proven track record of job creation and economic growth) fixing the mess the republicans left us.

He also repealed DADT, and by stepping down on DOMA, he has made it harder for that law to stay on the books.

He also has not ignored a month prior terrorist attack warning from the intelligence community, choosing to do nothing, and allowing about 3000 americans to be murdered in a arial multi plane terrorist attack... like bush did. he was warned osama bin laden was determined to attack on america soil, and bush did nothing.

republicans like to say they are tough on terrorisem, but obama has proven more aggressive in going after terrorists, and has already taken out more than bush did in his 7ish years claiming to fight terrorist. And what do the republicans do, claim that all of those al quida leaders killed in focused drone attacks makes america less safe... while they also say we should kill them all.

republicans inherited from clinton the best econamy we had seen in decades, with 22 million jobs created, the strongest middle class we had seen in a long time, and a budget surplus... they destoryed it all.

obama has a ways to go... but he has faced more, achieved more, and done all the things republicans are incapable of, by nature of republican policies that caused all the problems in the first place.

 

Please see Emogame for a lovely more hilarious version of this including bad guys shooting out of Barbara Bush's twat I'm just saying. One level shows what Bush did in an amusing way.

 

Now I've heard everything. I knew it would come sooner or later...It's Bush's fault 9/11 happened. Do you think he caused Katrina and blew up the levees too?

You could be on to something though...maybe he's the one I should blame for always losing at the dog tracks.

Please.

Using that logic I could just as easily say that it was Bill Clinton's fault 9/11 happened because he had a chance to kill Bin Laden back in the 1990's a took a pass on it.

I would not say that Obama has faced more than Bush. I don't think that anyone could have been prepared for the attacks of 9/11. I believe that was a complete game changer.
That's not to say the President has not continued the fight against terrorism with just as much zeal as his predecessor (although the usage of the term "man-made" disasters was simply laughable)

You continually blast Republicans for a debt, for this, for that...if it is cloudy outside instead of sunny..blah blah. Yet you completely ignore the fact that Obama and the Democratic Congress pretty near doubled the deficit by adding $4 Trillion to it in only 4 years.

But I guess that doesn't count does it? Because...hold on...let me hear it..the Devil made them do it right?

You completely ignore the fact that the Democratically controlled House of Representatives was so inept and incompetent that they couldn't even perform the most basic duty they are changed with..and that is to pass a budget...and this is a majority rules body.

You completely ignore the fact that even fiscally responsible Democratic Members of Congress are asking "Where is the President's leadership?" on budgetary matters.

You ignore phantom numbers that Senate Democrats used when throwing around their budget plan. They offered a proposal that would have cut $50 Billion as opposed to the some $60 Billion as offered by the Conservatives. The only problem is that $40 Billion of the Democratic proposal didn't even exist...that revenue never got passed into law.

You ignore the fact that President Clinton worked together with a Republican controlled congress to create and foster a healthy economic climate.

You ignore the fact that under Reagan, working with a Democratic Congress, this country saw one of the greatest peace-time economic expansions in it's history.

You constantly wage war on "the rich"..or (according to the Administration) anyone that makes $200,000 a year as an individual filer. And I think that's sad.
Republicans want to punish people for "the sin" of being middle class?
I could just as easily say that the left has wet dreams at night thinking about punishing people for *gasp* the sin of having money.

The "rich" as you refer to them with constant contempt, are not all executives of Goldman-Sachs or Wall Street Bankers...or even those nutty Hollywood socialites. Most are the classic "Millionaire next door". The ones that built a company themselves. The ones that prolly live in a $300-400K house but have a few million is assets.

They didn't take a damn thing from anybody. The got that by working their asses off.

That is nothing to condemn or hold resentment for. That is something to celebrate.

 

so fair and equal society then really is people who are middle class should pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than people who are upper class on the economic ladder? That is a society that declares all citizens are suposed to be equal, then it is all right for the 2% at the top to not have to pay the same percentage as the 98% left over?

That only people who are straight should be allowed to marry... if you dont fit the right wing view, then you shouldnt be allowed to marry?

clinton forced the republicans to move to the center. the econamy was fixed under clinton not by republican economic policies that left us screwed over, but by refusing to give in to the policies that screwed us over.

it is about equality and equity.

Are we america? or are we not america?

Do all americans matter, or just the people at the top who can afford to buy off enough politicians to ensure they dont have to carry anywhere near as much burden for the future of america as all the people below them have to.

Should we be a free and equal country... or fall back into what italy had during the 40's: You are this race, this religion, this wealth, or you dont matter.

 

Ignore RedState guys, he's basically just trying to get your goat, what do you expect for someone whose name is RED STATE >_> lol

 

I'm not trying to get anyone's goat.
I'm simply refuting what i believe to be false information, which sometimes here is a full time job

 

Yet most all of your posts in the 'LGBT News, Rights, Issues and Equality' forum (I admit, not all of your post) tend to be you making snide attacks.

I notice you never answer anyones questions... you just jump in to basically running around telling everyone that doesnt think or feel or believe what you believe that they are wrong. When people state their opinion, and point out reality, you go on the attack, belittling and mocking them.

You have your opinons... but your history here shows you dont really seem to like other people having theirs.

Someone voices their support for the democrats/liberals, or voices their opposition to the republicans/conservatives, and it is like you throw up this imaginary 'sheild of rhetoric', and you rarely refute anything. Instead you jump in with guns blazing, and tear people down.

There are many conservative leaning members, and we chat with them all the time. Heated arguements do prop up from time to time... but in my experince, redstate, you are the only one who seems to go out of their way to denegrate other members because they choose not to conform to your idealogical values.

I look at what republican policies, economic and social have done... I don't listen to the rhetoric of the parties, I look to the result of their actions. Democrats are not saints, but republicans have not provided a system that gives americans the oppertunity for economic or social equality and equity. They stand feircely and proudly in the way of the equal civil rights of others: Gays shouldnt be allowed to be married to the people they love... women do not deserve the rights to expect equal pay for equal work... people of non european-caucasian ethnicities do not deserve the right to expect even though they are legal citizens, that they will not be profiled solely on their physical apperence.

Those three examples are things laws put forward by republican/conservatives, or things included in laws that they have actively and proudly gone out of their way to stop at any cost.

My grandparents, and half of my family are republicans. My grandfather on my mother's side was a life long republican to the very day he died. He also was, to the very day he died, a union supporter, and believed strongly in civil rights. He was a republican as the republicans once were. They stood strong with like-minded americans who believed everyone should have a chance, everyone is placed her on equal footing, and no one should be treated as a lesser person simply because of how much money they make, or the color of the skin, or their gender. He criticized his own party while he was alive as much as he critized the other side.

I would like to believe that the republican party still is the party he stood for, he supported...

...but the facts of the parties policies, behavior, and treatment of anyone who doesnt 'fit their mold' makes that impossible at this time.

my dad worked 35 years at a job, because it paid the bills, and ensured that he could provide for his families neccessities. my mom has been working at her current job for 20 years for the very same reason. My grandfather drove trucks, a exhausting job that is vital to our countries econamy, allowing most all of the goods we buy and use in this country accessable to stores.

and because of the direction republicans have decided to take in regards to the econamy, they pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than someone who makes more than $200k a year. Yet it is also the middle class that was hit by the republican led recession. the only people who weathered that storm, and had economic growth were the people at the very top... the people republican economic policies coddle and shelter.

Cutting budgets is not the end all solution... What we have in this country is a revenue problem. SOMEONE keeps cutting taxes for the people who do not need tax cuts to suvive, and putting no stipulations. they claim that if we raise taxes on the wealthy, then the wealthy will stop creating jobs... the reality is however that when they got their tax cuts they lobbied the right wing for, pretty much suddenly, job creation tanked. Throughout the entire recession, they kept silent until a democrat took the white house, and all through this time, they were sitting on more than enough capital to create jobs, expand their buisnesses, and help do their part to stimulate the econamy. Our econamy has become so wrapped up in those coorporations that we of course will be forced by them into collapse. Why would they create jobs in america when they can go and pay someone 30 cents a hour american to do the job elsewhere, where workers do not even have rights to expect safe working conditions.

And whenever we try to enact laws to prevent the flow of american jobs to foriegn markets, guess who stands in the way of that... let me give you a hint... it starts with a 'R', and ends with a 'N', and counts among its symbols a elephant, and a fat white guy who is afraid of change (yes I know, family guy quote...)

If the 2% had to pay the same percentage of taxes as hard working americans, they would still have way more money than the 98% below them. They would still be able to afford their wants (want and need are two different things in real america; wanting something is fine, but needs are not negotiatable).

the tax cuts for 2% of our population costs america over a period of time (If i remeber, 10 years) about 750-800billion dollars. 2% of our population doesnt pay their share in relation to a sizeable portion who earn taxable income also. They dont get tax breaks because they create jobs, becaue history shows they do not create jobs... at least, not in america. Being rich does not make you more patriotic, and it does not make you more deserve of breaks, expcially when your wealth means you do not need breaks.

Good, honest, decent hard working americans are getting shafted, and left with the bill because republicans have proven that good, honest, decent hard working americans are low on their totem pole. They dont want their finaciers to share the burden, and they dont want to fix the systems of inequality and inequity that makes it hard for people who work hard to get ahead, and climb that ladder.

750-800billion may be small change, but it is money that is lost that could help cut the deficit that clinton did not leave us with. instead, they want to cut any program that they can that actually helps our seniors, that gives kids a chance to get ahead when they are living in situations that limit their chances of going to college.

They continue to punish people for the 'sin of not being rich'. that is a real problem in america. there was a reason that even in 2007, republicans were claiming the econamy was strong... to them the econamy is the people at the top, who earn exohorbanetly huge ammounts of money often for doing little work. Who get most of their money not from work, but inheritance.

Why should the rest of america have to foot the massive deificts that the ultra wealthy have washed their hands of after playing a major part in creating? Why should 98% of america be demonized for having to watch republicans coddle and protect all the wall street speculators and hedge fund managers by fighting any effort to put protections back in place (which republcians removed in the first place) to prevent predatory practices, and hold those responcible accountable?

There has been no justice on that because republicans have fought tooth and nail to ensure that we do not put laws in place from stopping it happening again. They are defending fraud, and protecting the people who commited it.

how does it help america's middle class that many of them watched their livelyhoods, their retirement funds investments decimated, while the people who did it keep getting huge, 100million dollar a year paychecks? All protected by republicans, no less.

There is a massive distinction between capitalisem/free market, and facisem.

 

...just like you do against Republicans? Dude, seriously, get the fuck over whatever issue you have with them. They aren't evil, they aren't bad, and claiming that would be stupid as hell. They just have a different view point from you, and you attack them like they are the anti-christ. Get over yourself and give us some discussion about actual LGBT issues in the LGBT form.

 

Oh and your history is one big ball of sunshine...sorry, just pointing out the obvious.
First of all, I doubt if you want to get into a personal pissing contest...and you will understand how I am somewhat perplexed by your "opening statement"
I answer plenty of questions...and am gad to explain my positions on any issue.
Do I say somethings that I should not, sure...we all do. A lot of times that is in direct response to some snide comment directed toward me. Should I dignify that with any response...no...but we are all human. I refute things all the time..mainly the "shield of rhetoric" that you submit.

As far as refusing to appreciate a different point of view..one again I am perplexed...hell I've even defended The President here (more than once) before because I thought the commentary being issued was not correct....and yet you...of all people.. are lecturing me on the value of seeing another point of view...interesting.

My dad is part of that 2% that you constantly refer to with such disgust. And he is a good, honest, decent hard working american. He worked his ass of for 30 years to build a successful company...and so you can understand why I look at people who say "the rich" have done nothing but take. Bullshit. You think income taxes are the only taxes that those in the higher tax brackets pay? Do you not think that many community activities survive off the generosity of "the rich"? You mentioned that "the rich" do not create jobs...well who the hell does? Government? This is a harsh thing to say but reality: very few poor people create jobs. A good portion of those in that 2% are not the ones taking home $100 million paychecks, yet you constantly make that comparison.

And it doesn't matter if someone inherited money or not. Those people rarely pay a large income tax rate anyway...but they get the shit beat out of them with capital gains, dividend and other taxes.

Cutting budgets is of course not the complete answer...but it's a start. Nothing of any substance is going to happen until we tackle the problem of SS and Medicare/Medicaid. At least we are finally talking about how much to cut instead of how much to spend. We don't necessarily have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem (which I have point out the faults of the republicans MANY times).

Does each party have its pitfalls, certainly. But do not sit and make the case that those of the left are complete angles in this...as I stated before...you seem to ignore the negative actions of those you identify with.

Business was sitting on Billions before the election, you are correct. There was a very good reason for that...the had no idea who was going to take control of what and they had no idea what they would have to pay in individual taxes. That's not being harsh that is just having good business sense.

 

At this point, I'm really leaning towards letting these guys run things for four years.

 

I love how this forums has two people, Emberstone and RedState, who are both highly into politics and on completely different ends of the spectrum.

Debates will always exist~

Anyways, I am voting for Obama next election. I'll be able to vote. Suck it.

 

:eusa_clap

 

JFC

I'd like to make a motion that we set up a forum just for RedState and Emberstone to continue to write their essays bitching at each other so the rest of us can be left in peace.

Or maybe y'all could just use PMs

 

I hope the GOP selects the most far right candidate possible and Obama wins 2012 by a larger margin than in 2008. I hope they fight about all these BS social issues and really fall apart.

What I'd like to see is the tax rates go back to how they were before Reagan ruined them. Maybe we could fund our country once again like we did after WWII. There was a huge debt after the wars and we were able to pay for it bc of taxes. Now we can't pay for shit bc the wealthy won't pay like they used to. Maybe people of those generations felt patriotic paying 70-94% of thier income for the greater good of the country. Those days are long gone.

See tax rates here: http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html

The problem with social security is income over roughly $100k isn't taxed. Solve the SS problem by taxing on a person's full income.

 

Only imbeciles vote based on what group a political candidate is in. If someone is intelligent, a good leader, and will work for the people, they should be voted in for those reasons and not because they are Democrat/Republican/what have you. There are always going to be people who are all the way to the left or all the way to the right, and funnily enough I think those are the people who are least in touch with politics. They always tend to have prejudiced views, and I'm tired of the judgments of past presidents. Maybe they made shitty decisions, but I'd like to see you have that job.