My Argument with a guy on a basketball forum

Below is the forum transcript of an argument I had with Silly Man as I like to call him, on this basketball forum website about Kobe Bryant and the gay slur he said during a game.

Silly Man: Guys say stuff to refs every game. They get a T. They never get fined $100K.

This ridiculous fine has nothing to do with the ref. It is solely about offending "gays" and the politically correct crowd.

Me:You make it sound like its wrong to try and be politically correct. And if the fine is solely about offending gays, who quite possibly could be fans of the NBA, then again is that wrong? Boundaries need to be set, and yes sometimes those boundaries can be easily crossed than others, but without them, it can give some people the impression that its ok to discriminate against people for w/e reason.

Silly Man: Well, duh. Of course it is wrong to fine a guy $100k because he said something politically incorrect. It is doubly wrong because he was singled out to "protect" gays from a single word!!!

So, using your illogic, shouldn't we protect Kobe from being discriminated against with this unfair and outrageous fine?

Me: Maybe for you and I, it would be wrong, but Kobe makes a lot of money from people like you and I who spend our money to see him play basketball. He is a public figure and he has to be held accountable for things he says more so than other "normal" people would. And its not about "protecting" gays, its about letting him and the rest of the NBA atheletes that by saying those types of things puts the league in a bad light. And truthfully, that should extend to any type of slur that offends people as long as we live in a society where slurs are ok to say without any reprecussions. Where would that lead us all there wearn't?

And im gonna give you the bod on that "single word" part of your argument, because surely you arent saying that words dont mean anything. Only a person that hasnt experienced being called a slur would say something ignorant like that.

Silly Man: I'm offended by a lot of what these athletes (and other celebrities) say. You want to fine them all for all of it? Fine with me. I see zero reason to "protect" gays any more than anyone else. Don't even try to pull that silly slur nonsense on me. It won't fly.

Me: *Bolded the part about silly slur nonsense* Thought I'd let you look at that again and let it simmer.

Silly Man: So you're really that slow? The whole notion that a word that the "protected" group uses to call each other is somehow magically soooo offensive that people get $100k fines, lose jobs, or get careers ruined for saying it? You can't figure out how silly and downright wrong that is?

Somehow, magically, similar slurs about non-protected groups are somehow magically punished a lot less or not at all. Sometimes they're even considered to be funny and good things to say.

Ironically, the same folks that promote all this "political correctness" fancy themselves as defenders of freedom of speech!

Me: I have no problem with people using their right to freedom of speech. What you are doing now, no matter how ignorant you fail to realize you sound, is freedom of speech. Heck if you started throwing out every slur in the book on this forum right now, that is your right! But I'm pretty sure a swift ban hammer would be your reprecussion. You got to say what you wanted, but you get banned from the forum, Kobe said a slur, and got fined. Don't act like freedom of speech means you should be able say anything to your hearts content without having any type reprecussions.

And just to add one more thing to give you a little insight on why all of a sudden people are treating this as a big deal. There have been a lot of kids that have been bullied, tortured, killed, or killed themselves because they were or was perceived to be gay. That is why it is important for public figures like Kobe Bryant, who a lot of kids look up to (granted, they SHOULD NOT) not do things like that because it sends so many negative messages to kids. Now of course I know kids are going to say and do whatever, but it would help if the adults tried to set a better example. Kids should not have to be bullied, killed, or feel like their life is so bad that they should kill themselves all because they are gay. And we as adults can help that by trying to show that its wrong to treat people like that, regardless if you agree with them or not.

Silly Man (and this part is what started pissing me off): I'll chase your red herring for a moment before I move back to the subject at hand. Bullying, torturing, etc. are obviously wrong. Making up such stories for political gain and favoritism is wrong too. So is exaggerating such stories as you're doing now and others have done before. I don't suppose you can comprehend just how wrong it is to use others' deaths and pain for political gain.

Whether Kobe says that word or not has NOTHING to do with that. The NBA is free to fine employees however they choose within the law and contractual agreements. I am free to point out the unfairness and hypocrisy of such actions. I am also free to point out the hypocrisy of the people trying to enforce their idea of political correctness by censoring others' speech. You can pretend you aren't supporting censorship, but you are.

Me: Censoring speech huh? Is that really what this little back and forth is about? Because I know you are smart enough to know that ridiculing someone for using hate speech is WORLDS difference from censoring speech. Me saying people should be held accountable for what they say is not the same as saying someone can't say something. You and I can say whatever the heck we want to say, but do you honestly believe that people should not be held accountable for the things they say? Is that what you are saying? Nope, I dont think so.

I know what this really is about though. You have just been beating around the bush about it. This has less to do with Kobe's freedom of speech and more to do with your opinions politically about gay people in general. Thats why you do not see it as a big deal and think the fine is excessive. Look at your last post, saying I'm "making up stories for political gain." What, I'm trying to make people feel sorry for the gays for a lifestyle that they "chose"? I'm making up that these things have happened and still happening in schools? I'm making up that the word has hateful connotations to it?

Give me a break. I am not interested in playing your political games. If you are going to be an ignorant person quit trying to be cryptic about it. We both know that had Kobe got fined for saying a racial slur to a ref, you would probably be in favor it. Then again, maybe I am giving you too much credit.

Silly Man:Typical. You can't handle the truth, so you toss out insults and change the subject to try to gain sympathy. If gays are being killed for being gay, why isn't that on the news every night? The media LOOOOVES stories like that. I doubt that there is a single school in Dallas or Fort Worth that would DARE allow gays to be beaten up. That would be on the nightly news nationwide too. Take your bogus sob stories home with you.

BTW, censoring "hate speech" is still censoring speech. You aren't ridiculing hate speech. You're advocating huge fines for politically incorrect speech. I wonder if you'd consider censoring the liberal hate speech? Is it ok to wish publicly that someone would assassinate President Bush? Is it ok to wish cancer or heart disease on Justice Thomas or Rush Limbaugh? These things have been said or written by prominent liberals in recent years. Isn't that worse than a basketball player getting mad at a ref and saying that word?

There is zero reason to give gays special rights about anything - including the use of that word. Actually, there is zero reason to give anyone special rights like that.

There are few folks more ignorant or hypocritical than self-important liberals.

Me (at this point Loling at his ignorance):Wow. I did not know that Glenn Beck was a Mavericks fan! You really do not get it. You are too stubborn with your ultra conservative values to really understand why people going around saying all kinds of slurs and hate speech just because they can, would be detrimental to society.

Sigh. Ok so lets just draw the line and end it here because this is becoming pointless.
You believe that people should be able to say whatever they want IN PUBLIC (just so we can be perfectly clear) including slurs without any reprecussion.
I believe that people should not be able to say whatever they want in public, especially slurs, without some type of reprecussions.

I also believe that there is nothing wrong with the NBA fining Kobe Bryant 100k for a slur he said because
a) it is hate speech, no matter what group it was directed at
b) he was on his job, and his job does not approve of that type of speech
c) he is a public figure that sets examples for millions

Mind you, I have no issue of him or anyone else saying anything in the privacy of their own home. Thats their business, but when everyone has to hear it, it is and should be a problem.
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And thats pretty much the end of it. I am sure he is going to respond and try and twist it some type of way where hes not saying hes advocating hate speech. Whatever. I just found it incredible that he accused me of making up gay teens or teens perceived to be gay getting made fun of everyday in schools. That is when I knew I was arguing with Glenn Beck.

What are you guys thoughts?