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New Same-Sex Marriage Initiative Unlikely in California

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Dan82, Jun 13, 2011.

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  1. Dan82

    Dan82
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/13/us/13prop.html?_r=2


     
    #1 Dan82, Jun 13, 2011
  2. Emberstone

    Emberstone
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    if the case in court continues to be appealed by the anti-gay marriage group that has been fighting it in court (rather poorly, I might add), then if/when it reaches the supreme court, and is argued on the merits of the trials so far, it can set a national precedence.

    Why spend money on the state level in california when it might end up being better for the issue on a national level to let it leave the 9th district, and face the supreme court where (with Justice Kennedy's history of siding with the civil rights of LGBT citizens) there are only four easily confirmed anti-gay votes out of nine justices, and if we can keep Kennedy on our side, such voter based referendums against gay rights could be finally declared unconstitutional, seeing as technically, they already are, we just dont have a binding constitutional precedence.

    Sorry for the long sentence there. In essence, in california, the focus should be on the court case, which already is going strongly in our favor, even with multiple conservative judges having ruled on it. Judge walker, who ruled in the first place is a conservative appointee, and one of the judges in the 3 judge bench trial on issue of standing made alot of people worried because of his deeply conservative viewpoints, who ultimately turned out to take a hard line against the anti-gay marriage proponants for not having valid legal arguements, or following valid legal procedure.

    We may win a voter referendum in california now, but if we let the courts take their course, which may take a few years, the results might strike a strong constitutional blow against the national, anti-gay movement.

    It comes down to if we want a baby step in one state that has minimumal impact on the national gay rights movement, or if we can wait, and work to ensure prop 8 brings down homophobic anti-gay marriage laws all over.
     
    #2 Emberstone, Jun 13, 2011
  3. Chip

    Chip
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    I believe the entire plan, from the beginning, was to take it all the way to the Supremes. And that carries a risk, if, for example, the administration changed and we got another wingnut conservative on the court in 2013, and the case hadn't been heard by then.

    But depending on the outcome of some current motions, it may not get that far. The appeals court is questioning whether the case can move forward at all if there's no one to defend it. The CA governor and attorney general have both refused, and the asshats that bought the election in the first place are trying to insert themselves as plaintiffs, but so far it doesn't look like that argument is going anywhere. If the "defend marriage" asshats lose on becoming plaintiffs in place of the California AG, then the case will likely lose on appeal, since there's no one to argue it, and so Prop 8 will be overturned and marriage will be legal again in California.

    We have to remember that it's the same dumbasses that are now fighting against gay marriage who were fighting tooth and nail against the civil rights for African-Americans in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Some of them were making the same bullshit Biblical-based arguments against integration of schools and such as are now being made against gays. And life went on for them after that, and they eventually (for the most part) accepted that integration and civil rights were inevitable. I think the same will happen with gay marriage and other gay rights.

    Of course, if that happens, then all it will take is for some other group to take up a case in some other state challenging their statute under similar grounds, up to the Supremes. So one way or another, it will eventually happen, or so it seems now.
     
    #3 Chip, Jun 13, 2011
  4. Ethan A

    Ethan A
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    I don't believe Protect Marriage will be given standing as it will open up a whole can of worms with anyone being able to represent the state's interest in future cases. This is why I don't think the Prop 8 case will ever make it to the Supreme Court.
     
    #4 Ethan A, Jun 13, 2011
  5. Emberstone

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    the good thing, even if it doesnt go all the way to the supreme court, is that it still sets precedence, which judges have to defer to in similer cases. Each successful case makes it harder for anti-constitution conservative justices to argue against the rights of LGBT citizens.
     
    #5 Emberstone, Jun 13, 2011
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