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Pentagon suspends DADT in wake of court ruling

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Dan82, Jul 8, 2011.

  1. Dan82

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    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/07/military-DADT-Pentagon-court-ruling-070811w/
    Pentagon suspends DADT in wake of court ruling


     
  2. Revan

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  3. Mogget

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    Not quite. You posted that the Appeals court had ordered DADT not to be enforced. Dan's post is that the Pentagon is obeying that order. Given the Obama administration's lukewarm (at best) support for gay rights, they are two quite different things.
     
  4. Emberstone

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    so... will the conservatives claim that homosexuals have infiltrated the pentagon, and are useing it to force gay marriage down peoples throats or something equally lunaticy, but common from the far right lunatic fringe?
     
  5. Revan

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    Whatever.
     
  6. Emberstone

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    I love how people say obama has a lukewarm record with gay rights, yet no sitting president has done more to advance lgbt rights and equality in the history of america, and not just to advance those rights, but to actually get results.

    Of course, he is only one cog in the machine that is turning us towards fully equality in america for LGBT, but he still have achieved and continues to push for more than any prior president.
     
  7. Mogget

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    Being the best we've had so far doesn't make him good. The bar's rather absurdly low.
     
  8. ANightDude

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    I'm not sure what you're wanting out of him or expect. People (and people on here, in particular) seem to think he's got all this power, when in reality it's minimal. Don't blame him, we KNOW he supports gay rights. Blame Congress, considering they are the ones passing laws.
     
  9. Emberstone

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    Well, what president on gay rights are we judging obama against to view him as lukewarm for doing more than any president on advancing and securing lgbt rights?

    The bar is not being set low, people are setting it absurdly high.

    it is the 'it is never enough' mindset that actually does more harm to a cause than good. Is it enough? reasonably, we have achieved so much, and have more that we must work for. However, in the last three years, we have seen more progress from the white house on these issues that no doubt the last forty years prior.

    What does obama have to do to get the credit for the things he does? go out and take out osama bin.... wait... that already happened.
     
  10. RedState

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    >>>What does Obama have to do to get credit for the things he does?

    Oh....i think he has gotten a lot of credit for the things he has done...yes sir...a lot of credit indeed.
     
  11. Emberstone

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    Ironic, he also gets most of the credit for what happened before he was even elected president, but that is another issue.

    He gets blamed for things that cant be traced back to him, but the things he works hard on and succeds, he gets ignored.

    Yes, I would like to see more successes for the advancement of LGBT rights and equality... but maybe our society is getting to dependent upon the notion of 'instant gratification' for our own good.
     
  12. RedState

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    The fact that he gets blamed for things that happened before he was elected is not an earth shattering development...it's happened to just about every President. That is the nature of politics...it always has been and always will be.

    We have evolved into a more instant gratification culture, I will agree with you on that...a simple look at daily tracking polls will tell you that.
     
    #12 RedState, Jul 9, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
  13. No One

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    While this is welcome new in the sense that many people (including myself) no longer have to worry about their standing (or future standing) within the military, I feel that it is an impatient ruling.

    The policy is weeks away from certification for repeal (meaning only two more months until complete repeal), and this ruling may only act as a wrench in the thus far smoothly running operation.

    Every president get's blamed for things he didn't do, and has thing he has done ignored. It's the way it works. I agree that people have set the bar absurdly high. Obama is the first president to really fight for gay rights, and everyone expects him to do it all. At some point we have to just be happy with what we have for now, and be patient with what is to come.
     
  14. Mogget

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    Obama's still defending parts of DOMA in court, and it took him ages to decide not to fight the part that he's no longer fighting. And when fighting DOMA he (well, people under him with his tacit approval) compared homosexuality to pedophilia and incest.

    Obama didn't push for the repeal of DADT and, when it did get repealed (at the last minute, but that's a complaint about the Democratic Party, not Obama) he didn't push to get the repeal started as soon as possible and continued to dismiss LGB soldiers (and the repeal still doesn't include trans soldiers).

    He still doesn't support same-sex marriage.

    Obama has done some important things for LGBT people, but most of them have been last-minute and likely in response to threats by Democrats to oust him in the primary.
     
  15. ANightDude

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    ...are you serious?

    Obama promised the repeal of DADT years ago, and there's tons of evidence to prove that. He support Same Sex Marriage back when he was a Senator.

    So does anyone actually believe he doesn't support SSM? It's for re-election purposes, and it's the smart thing for him to do.

    As for DOMA, you do realize it's the president's job to defend the laws? Like it or not, DOMA is a law, and the Administration is required to defend it, even if they don't support it.

    Obama's been against DOMA for years, even more of an obvious reason he supports SSM.


    Honestly, forget it if you don't support his other policies. That's obviously up to you. But to say that he's "reluctant" or "unsupportive" is absurd.
     
  16. Mogget

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    Yes, I'm serious.

    Obama may have promised the repeal of DADT, but he defended it in court (see my comment on defending laws below) and didn't push for its repeal until Congress entered the lame duck session. Politically, I can understand that, to an extent, but it's hardly the act of the "fierce advocate" he promised to be.

    I don't think anyone believes he doesn't support same-sex marriage (although they're currently claiming that the statement he made in favor of it was made by an aide speaking for him who said something he didn't agree with), but if he were to speak out in favor of it, that would do a lot to shift the public perspective on the issue. One of the powers of the president is that of the bully pulpit; by dint of his office he can push for and advocate things with a louder voice and greater moral authority than other people. Had Obama publicly supported same-sex marriage during his election campaign, people who voted for him and for Prop 8 might have voted against Prop 8.

    It is not the duty of the president to defend unconstitutional laws. DADT may or may not be unconstitutional, I am not convinced, but DOMA clearly is. The DOJ has a history of not defending laws that are not constitutional. It isn't done frequently, but it has been done 13 times since 2004. It is explicitly legal for the DOJ to do so.

    And again, Obama has spoken out against DOMA, but until recently has done little to hasten its overturn or repeal.
     
  17. Revan

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    Because if you actually knew how the system worked down there, you'd know there isn't much he can do to "hasten its overturn". Quick question, whereabouts are you from, you say frigid north but I dunno if you're talking about the northern USA, or Canada, or the Arctic. I only ask because if you're not even from the United States, don't claim you know more than some Americans do. I don't know much, but I do know there isn't a lot that he can do to try and get it repealed quickly. He can't bring it up like senators, etc can do to try and get it repealed, the most he can do is speak out against it and decide that they'll no longer defend it. But that's about it, least pretty sure that is.
     
  18. Mogget

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    I'm a US citizen. I voted for Obama in the last presidential election.
     
  19. Emberstone

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    it should be noted that presidents cannot change law. all he can do is advocate for a change in law, and try to get the mometum going with the people, such as the courts or congress that can change the law.
     
  20. Mogget

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    And until very recently, Obama wasn't doing that.