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Israeli rabbi pairs gays to lesbians

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Dan82, Sep 3, 2011.

  1. Dan82

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    http://news.yahoo.com/israeli-rabbi...MGFiLTIzNDgxZDgxZjgxNwRwb3MDNwRzZWMDbW9zdF9wb



     
  2. Emberstone

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    This doesnt bother me as much as the 'cure the gays' movement because he is not forcing anyone into anything. from what I have read on this, it is a service rendered upon request, and nothing else.
     
  3. Katelynn

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    Ah, yet another attempt by some wingnut religious individual to try & 'fix' gay people. Has it ever occured to these people that we don't need to be fixed because there's nothing wrong with us? Perhaps maybe it is they that need to be 'fixed', since their smmall, narrow-minded ignorance prevents them from living life but instead going thru their lives harrassing & persecuting other people? I hope to hell that no one siigns up for his site, I especially hope that those who do eventually come to accept themselves & realize there's nothing wrong with themselves.

    As for the service rendered upon request, I find it kind of offensive that someone would think this is an acceptable service to render, as the implication is flat-out 'You're wrong & we can fix you if you sign up'. It will just prey upon those people who are going thru enough of a hard time coming to realize that they're not wrong to begin with. That's just my opinion Emberstone, and I certainly don't mean to imply that you're wrong or that my way of thinking is correct, all it is is just how I see the meaning behind the service itself & it's intentions. Please, feel free to disagree with me hon, I don't get upset by other opinions or other points of view unlike, I suspect, this rabbi might possibly get upset...
     
  4. Ethan

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    From what I understand, it's a requestable service for gays and lesbians in order to have children while still remaining true to their faith system. They aren't forced into anything, it just functions as a sort of loophole for a sort of surrogacy.
    Just my understanding.
     
  5. Lychee

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    I think it's fine. If they're Orthodox, they're obviously really, really, really religious, and if they choose this service, then they clearly want to continue to follow what they see as the right path. I think it's a lot better to set up a gay man with a lesbian, than try to set them up with a heterosexual partner, because their expectations of the relationship will be the same - (as in, it will be more about companionship, the raising of children, friendship, etc. than passion and sex). Obviously, it's a choice to partake in this service, and I think it's a valid one, seeing as how there is demand for it.
     
  6. Emberstone

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    It comes down to the choice of the people, not the rabbi. He is not telling them that they have to start being straight. However, he is rendering a service for those who, though recognize their sexuality, want to fulfil what their faith expects of them.

    For those who are not familer with judisem, it is expected that one marrys and produces children as apart of the religious canon. it is considered apart of the jewish population's covenant with God. For someone who is gay, but wants to fulfil that convenant, the rabbi is providing an option, but he also does not seem to be making any 'value judgements' about the people who choose to take him up on the offer.

    in relation to most religious leaders, I think he is being quite welcoming and affirming of LGBT members of his faith. He is basically doing what alot of orthodox rabbis wont do: he is not demonizing LGBT people, nor trying to make them change who they are (acknowledging that it doesnt work that way).
     
  7. Kidd

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    I'm very against this. He's putting people into loveless and sexless marriages, which children are going to be raised in. Doesn't that bother any of you? Children should be a product of love, not a pawn or something to be used by your religious beliefs.
     
  8. LostandFound

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    It's a band-aid solution. It's not perfect and it doesn't get at the root of the problem but it is a temporary fix. For these men and women following their religious traditions is more important than having a same-sex partner. The brilliant thing about this is that everyone is honest with each other from the outset. You don't get a gay person struggling to hide his/her true identity and marrying anyways which can lead to affairs and divorces. Both parties know full well what they are getting into with the other person and this honesty with a possible sense of 'we're both in this together', I believe can lead to a loving and lasting marriage. I mean, I love people of the opposite sex despite being gay and you can have love without being sexually attracted to someone.

    Hopefully someday the religious traditions will change and people can have relationships with children with the people they want. Until then, this is a solution which allows for honesty without judgement.
     
  9. Emberstone

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    to assume that because a marriage is not based on sexual attraction means that the children will not be loved is patently false.

    there are alot of sexless/loveless marriages that are 100% heterosexual where the children are loved, and their needs and emotions are cared for. There are also BUTTLOADS of 100% heterosexual marriages that are have two parents who love each other, and are neglectful bad parents.

    the reality is that you cannot make blanket statements.

    statistics show that gay parents are equal to heterosexual parents. if a child was born of sexual attraction does not mean that the child is better offer. if a child was not born of sexual attraction does not mean that they are screwed up.
     
  10. Kidd

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    I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm aware that LGBT people and same-sex marriages are capable of raising children perfectly fine--equal to or better than heterosexuals. That's not what I'm talking about.

    I'm concerned that these people are getting married to one another only because their religion says they should. It's almost like an arranged marriage or something. I'm concerned that these people are raising children together only because their religion says so. We know what happens when LGBT people go into heterosexual relationships that they don't really want, and it's not pretty. Few people ever find happiness as a pretender, and that applies to everyone, not just gay people.

    What do you think their children are going to think about this when they're older? I think what's even worse is that this rabbi says that these parents don't have to disclose their sexuality to their children. He even condones adultery in these marriages, basically. Imagine finding out after your father's death that he was actually boning the milkman and when your mother said she went to her weekly poker club she was actually sleeping with her secretary and that they never really loved one another and that you were brought into this world to appease a rabbi, and a hateful community that would have shunned your parents otherwise. Personally, I would feel betrayed and angry about it.

    Or, let's consider the alternative. Let's pretend for a moment that this couple is open with their children--this kid knows that his dad is gay and his mom is a lesbian--what does that say about us as a community? It sends the message that it is a choice, we can marry each other and be happy--I think it undermines the entire marriage equality movement and it sends the message to these kids that people can be used for breeding stock.

    It's a relationship based entirely on appearances, with no real substance, and I think it's just going to end in a hopeless tragedy for these couples and their children.
     
  11. Mogget

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    My understanding is that a large number (perhaps the majority?) of Orthodox Jewish marriages are arranged, so it's really not that different from what the kids would be getting in a couple made of straight people.
     
  12. Austin

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    Sigh. If it is true, that it is a custom to have arranged marriages, it seems fine to me. You can't really tell them that because they don't do it the way you think is "right," that they are wrong. Marriage has served many purposes in the past. For money, for a life business partner, etc. Marrying purely for love has only recently come into the picture, really. And people used to have kids essentially to have free workers, I'm under the impression. They didn't turn out psycho.

    I'll say this again. Just because parents don't love each other doesn't mean the are unfit for raising children. Single parents can raise children. And like I said love is only recently really in the picture. We should be more concerned about the negative effects of a relationship involving love on children. More divorces are common now that love is the main reason for getting married. Because love fades, etc.

    The children are actually probably better off in these relationships... lol...
     
  13. Lychee

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    Yes, this is my understanding also, and I have quite a few links to really Orthodox Jewish communities.
    And no, they are not condoning adultery in the slightest. I don't think the intention is for the people to have homosexual sex outside the marriage, seeing as how homosexual sex is forbidden under the Torah.
     
  14. txnathrt

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    I believe most of the anger here comes from a misunderstanding of Orthodox Judaism. These individuals are requesting the service so that they fulfil the mitzvah of having been married and having children ... they are choosing this service. There would not be any ( accepted ) outside homosexual contact as that is forbidden by Torah. A majority of orthodox, and some conservative marriages are arranged,so this is not really anything new.
    Nor is a Rabbi arranging a marriage between a gay man and a lesbian a new thing in the orthodox community, it is something that was simply never spoken of before.
    .
     
  15. PianoHead57

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    I think it's wonderfully ironic. The anti-gay movement often complains about how the damned homosexuals are attacking traditional marriage, and then you get a rabbi arranging "hetero-homo-thingy-mix" (please note this is a technical term) marriages between openly gay/lesbian people who are admittedly only doing it for social reasons and still fully expect to have sex with other members of the same sex. I almost wonder if the rabbi was kidding.
     
  16. Noir

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    .............He's forcing people completely wrong for each other into a loveless marriage just so that they can make babies????? :eek: Those poor people!
     
  17. maverick

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    I don't think he's forcing them...nobody HAS to be an Orthodox Jew.

    If you're part of a religion that believes homosexuality is wrong, nobody forces you to follow that religion. I left my homophobic congregation when I was ten, just a few years after really starting to figure out that I might be less than straight.