The Gay Debate: The Bible and Homosexuality

Thanks so much for posting this. This guy is phenomenal and is a great encouragement for gay Christians. I think everyone should see this

My favorite line of Matthew's speech:
"Good teachings, even when they are very difficult, are not destructive to human dignity."

 

Amen nuff said

 

what an amazing video, i never wanted it to end

 

I'll have to watch this when I have time, but as for attacking religion, you're right, since it paints all people of religion as bigots and that's not true so we must stop that. It's the same as how some people stereotype us as...well, take your pick of stereotypes. The "faithful" that attack us are the people who promote the stigma against us. Because of that, they are not faithful followers of Jesus' example. Most of them will never change, unless one of their kids kill themselves, like in Prayers for Bobby. We must correct their lies with the truth. They are entitled to their opinions, but not their facts. Maybe I'll see what you're saying after watching the vid, but right now I don't see how we can give a pass to those who attack us and infect others with lies. Those who try to win with lies will eventually lose since the truth can't be hidden forever.

 

No offense to atheists but I do think alot of people gay or straight become atheists because they only side that one side of christianity which is hateful and bigoted. They than turn away from it. I believe in God and the Bible with all my heart and believe I am loved by God and Jesus. I was roommates with a Evangelical eagle scout straight christian guy who was a hypocrite and behind closed doors he was messing around with his girlfriend and doing other stuff that was sinful according his religion. He was a very hateful person who I regret ever meeting. I saw no love for Jesus or God in his eyes and as much I don't want to judge others he needs to be called out for being a hateful person. God is love and I hope more people find peace with religion.

 

I'll have to watch this when I have a bit more time.

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I'm sure that there are some people who may become atheists for that reason but to classify the majority under that I believe would be incorrect. Personally, I turned away from religion because I think it is illogical and quite honestly foolish. Am I honestly supposed to believe without proof that some greater power created the world and will judge me upon my death? I also dislike religion because of what people do with it. Not to personally target you, but you in your very post are judging your roommate for his actions and saying that you regret even meeting him because of how he sinned. If you truly believe in a "God" then let him judge your roommate. It would be that "God's" place to judge on your roommates sins, not you. And whose to say that your roommate had the same views on his religion that you did? His views could have permitted his type of behavior. You are judging and condemning your roommate because he did not live up to your expectations of religion (or at least that is what I'm getting from your post) which irks me the most about some religious people. No one has the authority to judge another person's life based on their standards. Live and let live.
/end rant

(oh, and I apologize if it seems like I'm personally attacking you, that was not my intent. I was merely using what you said in your post as an example)

 

I am not gonna get in a fight over if God exists cause that will make this discussion more heated. I want to clarify I don't regret meeting my roommate because of his sins I regret meeting him because of his over the top homophobia week by week. I could care less about his sins i was just making point that he should not be so judgmental of others hwne he is not perfect himself. You do make a good point because I am judging him which would also mean I am religious hypocrite. I am trying to do better on those christian principles it is just I suffered so much bigotry its hard to cope with it. If you would of known my roommate you would understand better. Every christian strives to be a better a person and there is no such thing as a perfect christian in my belief. There is a such thing as forgiveness and redemption for a reason cause God knows we all have faults. My roommate had a big mouth so believe me i knew everything that was on his mind and at the beginning of the year he said he was going to save himself till marriage and at the end of the year turned into a jerk who told his parents his girlfriend is a crazy person who tried to get him in bed when he refused just to save his own butt. Will not get into any more details cause I could write a book about him. Anyway i will always be a christian until the day I die. God is love

 

I was not attempting to get into an argument about the existence of God. You brought up a hypothesis about why people became atheists and I was giving my own personal experience as to why I became an atheist. I figured there was more as to why you didn't like your roommate, but I was just using what you said in your post, my bad. Some people are jerks, that is a given. I was just saying that no one should use their religious standards to judge another person because no one religion (or lack thereof) can be proven more correct or better than the others. I could get into an argument about the every Christian striving to be a better person and about God being love, but alas, this is not the time nor place. On that note, good day sir and I hope you have a nice rest of the day

 

I agree you have some very good points and I agree that every religion should be respected and tolerated up to a certain point and I hope you have a good day. Yeah as much as I love long drawn out arguments I think this is not a place to do that.

 

I agree with this. I realize the conversation has been hashed out beyond this point, but I wanted to add that I feel like a great deal of people believe that I'm an atheist because I'm gay, even though my reasons are more or less what you wrote here.

 

You make a great point and wanted to add something the same situation can happen to straight people to not just gay people. I am just going with what I have heard from some atheists who opinions are based on how they were raised in a conservative religious environment and that turned them away from God rather than closer to God. I know that is not the case for all atheists but could be for some.

 

Uhm.. no. I have been atheist as long as I can remember, even before I realized I was bisexual. I had a civil confirmation and I even opted out of the state church recently. I refuse to be part of an institution that gets funding from the state while at the same time actively discriminate against gay people. LGBT people still can't get married in church here, the state church refuses to marry gay couple, and they have the law on their hand, since the law says they're allowed to take that stance. So yeah.. no thanks. I refuse to be part of something that discriminates against our community.. I also don't see the point of being a member since I've always considered myself an atheist.. the only reason I was a member in the first place is because I was baptized when I was little.. but I've always been an atheist at heart, and I'm damn proud of it too! I think: when Christians are proud to have faith, why can't I be proud of having no faith? I have embraced my non-faith more and more lately, been listening to amazing philosophers like Dawkins and Hitchens.. oh, and btw: RIP Hitchens! You will never be forgotten. You have certainly made a mark in this world!

 

I am gay and been a christian since I was born and was always conflicted with my faith and sexuality. I later realized that god loves no matter what I am because I didn't choose to be this way. You may not know that there are churches out there that openly support gay rights and have gay marriages. So your wrong the church as a whole is not discriminating against gays and there are churches who will accept me as I am like the Congretational, United Church of Christ, or the Assembly of God churches.

 

I...I almost cried. For a number of reasons both good and bad. For once, it seems that there may be hope in this home I'm in (not trying to sound selfish) and for the homes of many others. But the thing is, I'm almost certain my mom will say that he's biased and that he's only saying this in favor of homosexuality because he's part of that group. She's going to say that everything this man has said is basically a lie. And that's heartbreaking in more ways than one. But I'm still going to show her and just...hope. I'm going to allow myself to hope just a little that this might help in someway, but that's for tomorrow; it's late right now.

Thank you for sharing this!

 

Hanks both for posting this. This man is phenomenal and is a great encouragement for gay Christians. I think everyone should see this

My favorite line of Matthew's speech:
"A quality education, even though they are very difficult, not destructive to the dignity of man."

 

Uhm.. I was talking about the state church in Norway, and other churches here, not churches in USA. I'm sure you have some gay-friendly churches in USA. We don't have that here in Norway though, and again.. I refuse to support an institution that gets funding from the state to actively discriminate against the LGBT population.

 

My two atheistic pennies are that atheism, secularism, anti-clericalism and opinions on soundness of particular doctrines are four very distinct, if somewhat related, things.

I firmly believe and think I have enough evidence to prove that a clerical hierarchy is inherently a dangerous thing, that church should not under any pretences interfere in secular matters, and will fight tooth and nail for that. I also tend to bristle at that widespread tendency to equate religiosity with good behaviour, that "if there's no God, everything is permitted" (I'm with Kant* on this one: reason is the only true requirement for comprehension of ethics and its value. ) And I have little respect for biblical "literalism," - it's simply intellectual laziness, a cheap non-answer to a difficult question. You can't read a book "literally" unless it's something that came out of a law firm (and often not even then, that's why we have courts and juries,) and Bible was certainly not written by a lawyer, more like a poet, even the legalistic parts.

I've met many people, atheists and not, devout and lapsed, moral and immoral... And I can't deny that some people definitely feel the existence of some kind of higher, benevolent power over the world. I'm ready to take them for their word on that point, but it doesn't mean that I personally feel it, or that I would engage in some ritual practice just on their say-so. My spiritual side simply doesn't work the same way. Or, maybe it's not the time yet. I'm a sceptic, and that means I'm sceptical about my scepticism, among other things. You can only discover the truth if you're willing to change your mind and concede your point. But for now, I'm an atheist.

*My understanding of him, anyway.

 

When it comes to these arguments, I think the man makes a great point. As for my own stance, I try to never attack one's religion, simply their methods of attack. I may be a little harsh by saying "stop acting like a fool" which, true, may be a silly way of doing it, but I never attack someone's religion. Though I will often criticize one's usage of the Bible as a weapon.