Time for a new kind of Pride?

[Dauntless]

Seen this article thanks to a friend of mine, and did a quick search and didn't see it here.

Andy Ostroy: Time for a New Kind of Gay Pride Celebration?

I agree with it 100%. This kind of events do NO good for the GBLT rights, and makes us look really bad. I walked though the end of the NYC parade a few years back on my way to work, and was appalled, and damn near had nightmares, by the things I seen.

[BudderMC]

I do, and I don't. I mean, I get why people are so appalled by the shows that go on (I'm sure I will be to when I get to Pride next year), but at the same time I don't think ending that will help a whole lot.

Hear me out for a second, and think of it this way. Pride parades are now (for theoretical purposes) going to be filled with the everyday gay people. Honestly, that's pretty damn boring. I mean, it's a bunch of plain-old people walking down the streets, just adorned with a lot of rainbows (and not even that many, because that would be "excessive" for the rather average person). What makes us so different from the stereotypical straight person then? A parade full of suburbians is not exactly exciting to watch or worth going to see. Pride on the other hand, definitely gets out a message that we exist.

I think anyone with half a liberal brain is able to discern the fact that the gay community is made up of more people than just those swinging their... everything on the floats at the crowds. And the people who can't think that way, well, I think it's fair to say they won't care who the gay community is made up of anyway, and making the parade more boring isn't going to solve that problem.

I think it could probably be toned down a bit, but "turning it off" is the opposite of making progress, in my opinion.

[Dauntless]

I dont think turning it off is good at all, but they really need to be toned down. How many other parades can you go to, with the family, that have 50 year old men, in leather straps and G strings?, or 20 year old twinks with nothing but tight shorts on. Im sorry, I wouldn't want my kids going to that! Im all for being free, and in another thread I mentioned this is America, free speech, etc.. but some of these parades are borderline sausage fests. I see nothing wrong with a large group of people with rainbow flags, and to me, that is pride. Pride is not what goes on in your bedroom or your dreams. Pride should be G rated, for every and anyone to see.

[BudderMC]

^ but the thing is, (supposedly) kids and families DO go to Pride, so it's not like they're excluded or anything.

The other thing to keep in mind too I think is that the bigger the city, the bigger the Pride parade, and the more outrageous it's likely to be.

[rx79g]

I agree with this article actually, except I think this article was a little biased. From what I know not all pride events are like that, but I think the ones that are need to stop. Gay pride isn't about fringe groups' kinkiness or promiscuity, and I don't think anything of the kind should be allowed. I think there are plenty of examples of pride festivals (non gay) that do not involve sex so blatantly, e.g. Black Expo. I think pride events like that are a significantly contributing factor in stereotypes about gay promiscuity.

[Lovely]

Stand by for the EC members that are infinitely more involved in Pride parades than me, but from what they've said and the little I've heard from people and seen in person, it would seem that the media over-focuses on the "hyper-sexualized" aspect of it.

Heck, last year I was up in Vancouver (BC) for what I assume was a day-long Pride celebration (I didn't go there for that, it just happened to coincide), and yes, there was some of the crazy, down-to-underwear people jumping around - but they were by far the minority. (And this is Vancouver, it's one of the most socially liberal/tolerant places you can find - i.e. you'll see less and less of that as you go to smaller cities/towns).

Everyone else was completely normal, save for the rainbow flags they were carrying around. Nothing but smiles everywhere, presumably from knowing that you could walk around and not worry for a second that anyone there would take offense to your sexuality.

I used to hate the notion of "gay pride," but I came back with a different mindset.

[TheEdend]

I do agree that some pride parades need to re-think how they are being orchestrated, but, from my experience, there are only a handful of cities that have outrageous parades. Most parades aren't half as crazy as the media portrays them.

But even then, you have to think about what type of message you are sending out there if you are saying "Yay! Acceptance...except for you. You are too weird and make us look bad. Shoo"

But either way, I would encourage you to go to different pride events around your area to see if there is a difference, and to look into the history of the pride parade which is beautiful really. Also, if you want, I have an album on here showing what pride looks like in my city. Around here they are trying to make it more family friendly without being too restrictive on people. Its a nice balance if you ask me.

[Owen]

From the article:

No one I know who's gay took to the streets this past weekend.

That's exactly the problem. As Harvey Fierstein put it, "If you want to know why the parade does not look like you, it's because you and your friends sit at home and complain, instead of showing up."

Also, news flash: go to a pride parade yourself, and you'll see dozens of regular-looking people marching for every person in an outrageous costume. And that's counting all outrageous costumes, not just the leather daddies and near-naked people; hell, I barely see any of those when I go to pride.

Really, the article put it well when it said this:

the event has mainly become associated with raunch: public, often times drunken displays of nudity, kink and camp so high you'd need a satellite to photograph it.[emphasis my own]

Pride parades have become associated with the kinky stuff because that's what stands out about them, and that's what the media focuses on. If you actually go to one instead of complaining about them on the Internet, you'll see dozens of tasteful floats, troupes, and groups walking in the parade. The only way you could think the parades were so thick with kink and nudity that you couldn't bring kids there is if you had never been to one yourself.

You know what? I think pride parades need the kink, the camp, and yes, even the nudity. Because I really hate the idea that we should conform to straight people's ideas of what is normal so that they accept us. They should accept us whether we fit their definition of normal or not; their acceptance of our love for the same sex should not be contingent on us fitting their standards. So I think we need to, every once in a while, get out there and say, "Hey, we're aren't all normal, and there's nothing wrong with that."

Short version: if you take issue with the idea of pride parades being all kink and nudity, quit your complaining and go there yourself. Go there so you can see that kink and nudity is a drop in the bucket of the whole thing, and go there so that the "gay people like you" will be represented, as well.

[Revan]

I disagree with this article. He's not gay so he doesn't understand. Fine the rest of you don't agree, and I'll admit seeing a 70 year old in drag last year was rather :S mixed feeling about, but fact is, it's there and banning them is like banning anyone. Or you know, if straight people were to ban us from their markets, etc.

This article written with regards to the London (ON) Pride Parade said it nicely: AM980 News Talk Sports Fine Time For a Parade - Nathan Smith's Blog Nathan Smith

[Pret Allez]

This is article is extremely pedestrian and a cheap shot at marginal queer subcultures. This shit is so old and played out. It's also really fucking stupid. I mean, I don't have anything intellectual to say about it, because it doesn't even deserve a researched response.

I am not going to go to gay pride dressed in business formal. I am going to it with a loud pink shirt and knee high mismatched socks. And I don't give a shit about articles that want to say I'm everything that's wrong with gay culture (like it's monolithic, and like you understand jack shit about it.)

[Bobbgooduk]

Of course the Media manipulate public perception of the gay community by what they show and HOW they show it - that's what sensationalist journalism is all about. If we were treated fairly and respectfully by the press and TV companies, an awful lot of things would be different.

Having said that, though, the Media have been instrumental is changing some attitudes in a good way, so it's a difficult choice to make whether you see tham as friend or foe.

To be fair, the Media aslo focus on the Kooky religious groups too rather than the moderate and non-judgemental groups that seek to accommodate us.

On balance, my personal view is that you should let people have fun, within the law, but why not celebrate? It's not like it happens every day of the year and, if nothing else, it shows "them" and "us" just how large our community and its friends is.

[AshenAngel]

I agree with this. Even though I've never been to Pride, i really want my first to be like this, and not a drunken mess...D':

[lilbitlost]

Lol ok so why is a guy wondering down the street in a skimpy outfit a bit bleh and kinky but hundreds of women in skimpy outfits at notting hill is plain old sexy? Would it help the guys case if they put feathers on their butts and heads like the ladies? :P Personally i think it takes a truck tonload of guts to do it and i totally cheered on all the guys in outrageous outfits at world pride!
Also the pride i was at wasnt a drunken mess in any way shape of form, when i left there were speakers happily going into gay rights speeches and people just standing around in small groups chatting or listening. Some of them were even loitering in outrageous costumes! I even saw a couple of tiny dogs with little frilly collars! It may well have descended into a drunken mess later in the evening, but then thats generally what happens with a large gathering of people with handy bars nearby, nowt specific about that attached to gay pride.

[Revan]

^To be honest, if I had abs, defined pecs and a toned ass I'd go to pride wearing nothing but briefs with open back There I said it.

While gay pride parades often show the side of gay culture that homophobes hate the most (crazy drag queens, effeminate sissy glittered fags, muscled leather daddies, butch lesbians, and gym bunnies dancing and flexing in their underwear, and trannies), their attitudes towards us would not change if gay pride parades consisted of men wearing blue denim, and neatly pressed button down shirts, and pretty women in dresses with ribbons and flowers in their hair.

While I have mixed feelings of some of the things I see at 'gay events' (I found photos of the Folsom festival online and there were some jerk offs doing public masturbation, and I feel that is defiantly not cool), straight people are not without their own forms of lewd entertainment. Be it, Amsterdam or Thailand, every country in the world with a sex trade caters that towards the 'sexual deviancy' of straight people. So does pornography, and the Internet, and anyone that wants it can easily find it. Some of the most disturbing porn I've seen has been straight. Especially porn that objectifies and dehumanizes women. You can bet the little hate mongers that protest our life style are getting their rocks off at home to whatever freak porn their own little tastes enjoy.

People are going to hate us no matter if we are screaming sequined queens, lip syncing Lady Gaga, or quietly sitting in a coffee shop with our 'normal' looking boyfriends, wearing our make no waves greys and beige Old Navy shirts. I would rather not give a sweet polished crap and continue to enjoy pride as it is, than 'conform' to make us more palatable to the ones that hate us.

The author of the article in the initial post says it best, "im not gay" and therefore he doesn't understand. Besides if we did become a bunch of parading 'normals' with kids, you'd still have the extremist freakos accusing us of stealing, indoctrinating and molesting the children anyway.

They just can't get off their own twisted fantasies of children theft and molestation.

[Revan]

^The Folsom festival is something I'm sure many of the LGBT community are not the fondest of.

[seeksanctuary]

Originally Posted by Owen

You know what? I think pride parades need the kink, the camp, and yes, even the nudity. Because I really hate the idea that we should conform to straight people's ideas of what is normal so that they accept us. They should accept us whether we fit their definition of normal or not; their acceptance of our love for the same sex should not be contingent on us fitting their standards. So I think we need to, every once in a while, get out there and say, "Hey, we're aren't all normal, and there's nothing wrong with that."

Exactly. THANK YOU.

The kink, camp and half-nakedness are part of the GLBT culture... like it or not. GLBT people are sometimes kinky, camp and sometimes half-naked... just as they are sometimes not-kinky, not-camp and fully-clothed. The GLBT community isn't supposed to be about excluding people just because "they're embarrassing" or "they make the rest of us look bad".

What the hell kind of mindset is THAT?

Originally Posted by Revan

I'll admit seeing a 70 year old in drag last year was rather...

Rather awesome, IMO. Yay drag!

[Jonah 4]

Originally Posted by Dauntless

Seen this article thanks to a friend of mine, and did a quick search and didn't see it here.

Andy Ostroy: Time for a New Kind of Gay Pride Celebration?

I agree with it 100%. This kind of events do NO good for the GBLT rights, and makes us look really bad. I walked though the end of the NYC parade a few years back on my way to work, and was appalled, and damn near had nightmares, by the things I seen.

I'll admit, I've never been to a pride parade. And I don't particularly relate to all the public nudity that some people put on, but I got to disagree with the guy.

If the point of gay rights movement was to simply become 'mainstream' and gain 'marriage rights' then I might agree, but there is so much more at stake than that.

There is a problem with how the mainstream treats those that are different. And that doesn't change if we add one group to the mainstream(aka the 'acceptable gays').

[WeirdnessMagnet]

When we squabble about who's "normal" and who's undermining our image with camp and kink and all that somewhere a right-wing strategist is laughing like Dr. Evil. Divide Et impera. It never fails.

(rest of the rant deleted, because Owen did it much better already.)

[IllusiveRannoch]

geez, Pride is sounding like tons of fun. i wanna go .

Owen sounds like he's got it dialed. thanks for the aptly owned description owen.

speaking of g rated events, well there's always the Mardi Gras that i see plenty of parents take children too. it's quite the education .