1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Marriage=procreation

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by dano22, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. dano22

    dano22 Guest

    I have been a member of the Catholic Church all my life and this year was the first time I ever heard my church speak out so hard against gay marriage. It is mainly because there is a amendment to define marriage as one man and one woman. There are signs all over even at the Catholic cemeteries of all places. There is article in my church bulletin every week defending marriage kind of crazy and I really just want to leave the church already.

    Their main argument is that marriage is for procreation. What do you guys think of this argument within the church.
     
  2. Pret Allez

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    6,785
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I think that we should have a police state to make sure that married couples are fucking and having kids, and if they aren't, they should be fined on the first offense and divorced on the second offense.

    I mean, let's have logical consistency here, please.
     
  3. Emberstone

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    people who are not allowed to procreate (I.E. the catholic authorities who set the policies, all who are mandated to be chaste), are not qualified to talk about something they do not understand.

    Gay people procreate all the time; the difference is that Gay people can't have children without WANTING them, and working hard to fulfil the chance to be parents.

    Gays, like heterosexual couples who cant concieve on their own, use surrogates and donors to get the children they so long and fight hard for. the bible says nothing about surrogacy.
     
  4. dano22

    dano22 Guest

    Exactly what I was thinking. The argument centered around procreation is very hypocritical and basically makes no sense at all. In all of my church's arguments they say they are not judging gay people but we all know that is just not true.
     
  5. spectrumsigner

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Middle o' Nowhere, North Carolina
    The Bible says true religion is to care for widows and orphans-- I feel like adoption fulfills that "orphans" bit.
     
  6. Ghost

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio
    Gender:
    Female
    Besides the inconsistencies and hypocrisy, do they seriously believe there's a need to procreate right now? Their god's creation/earth is overrun by humans. Why are they worried about procreation when Christ would probably want them to worry about the orphaned and abandoned children currently alive?

    Such a dumb argument.
     
  7. Ridiculous

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Ask them if they will perform a marriage between heterosexuals where one of them is infertile, has a disability preventing conception, or the female is post-menopausal. All of these marriages cannot result in procreation.
     
  8. BradThePug

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    6,573
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    Ohio
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I've always thought that this argument is total BS. Not all married couples have children.. so how can you say that the main purpose of marriage is procreation??
     
  9. madi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    In your wildest dreams
    This argument is completely invalid. I know plenty of straight couples who never procreate either because they choose not to or because they cannot conceive. Does this mean that these people's marriages are illegitimate? The original purpose of marriage was for men to be able to know who their children were so they knew who got their inheritance....Marriage now however, is about making a commitment to each other. It is a way of proving to each other that you are fully committed to each other and want to remain that way. It is also a legal contract which entails many different things. My point is I guess that marriage is not the same as it used to be so when people talk about the "original purpose of marriage" or the "sanctity of marriage" it really gets me going because it means either
    a. they don't know their history and therefore don't realize what marriages original purpose was...or
    b. They know the original purpose, but remain backward in their way of thinking towards women because in original marriage contracts there was no distinction between them and cattle.
     
  10. Jinkies

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,321
    Likes Received:
    47
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Is there someone you want to spend the rest of your life with?

    Is that feeling mutual?

    There. There's reason enough to get married. Why the hell this is such a big deal, I have no fucking clue.
     
  11. dano22

    dano22 Guest

    I think the whole argument behind procreation is pointless enough said.
     
  12. Emberstone

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    I would actually say that it is not without a point behind it, but the real point of the arguement is that religion cannot exist unless it replenishes itself what is lost through death and disenfranchisement. At least in america, there are two denominations that have been, as some point in time, a 'breed your way to heaven' denomination: catholicsem and mormonisem. There is a stereotype that lingers with both that they have huge families because they are compelled too. While there is nothing wrong with a big family, the churches in question used to emphasis the point.

    I think there is a view in the most homophobic denominations that gay families are less likely to be religious. its not necessarily true, as alot of heterosexual families are not religious. The impulse to procreate is relatable to the impulse of conversation, which for more militant religious denominations, such as mormonisem and catholicisem, which place a disturbing point of desire on political and social control, and influence and overruling of other peoples lives, that anything that seems to be outside of their power is evil or damaging to society.

    the truth is, it is only damaging to the society they *want*, not damaging to actual society.

    That is why there tends to, at least with catholicisem, but to a far lesser extent with mormonisem, a noticable disconnect between the church authorities, and the actually congregants of the faith.

    the catholic hieracy, which is an all male, generally all chaste caste system, is far more conservative than most catholics, who tend to be liberal or moderate.

    I sometimes wonder if in time, mormonisem will schisem off into a disconnect between the mormon hierarchy, another all male caste system, though with sex, and the congregants of the faith. One can hope, because as it is, mormonisem is basically run as a dark ages catholic church at this time.
     
  13. IllusiveRannoch

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2012
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    i'm not really wanting to down any lgbt people on here who are religious, but after visiting americancatholic.org & seeing the arguments against gay people in general, not just gay marriage, i think that (at least the site's) argument is invalid & based on a mix of paranoia of supernatural punishment, a self righteous superiority complex, w/ a dose of verbally coercive power-hungriness to drive people towards fear. please don't that think i'm against religious people. there are some very loving ones, no doubt.
     
    #13 IllusiveRannoch, Oct 8, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2012
  14. ArcherySet

    ArcherySet Guest

    Let's see how can I make my statement in the most non-combative, non offensive, non anti religious way.

    Marriage does not equal procreation. Procreation is the result of sex. It is purely biological, and humans have been doing it outside of marriage since the dawn of time, and in some cultures (as in nature) a single man impregnates many women, and they bare his offspring, married or not, the result is the same. Procreation.

    Marriage is little more than an agreement, a verbal/documented agreement that generally entails promises of commitment, and shared finances. It has nothing to do with procreation. A church will use whatever narrow opinion to back up whatever stance they have on whatever issue they feel the need to support or combat.

    Blah blah blah, religious bullshit, blah blah blah.
     
    #14 ArcherySet, Oct 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2012
  15. TheUndiscovered

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    'merica
    I don't get the procreation argument. There are 7 fucking billion people + on this world, we're getting to the point where we have to think about more solution for mass energy and population management but people think the tiny spec of people on Earth that make up the LGBT community getting married will cause 7 BILLION people to become EXTINCT? Well, if we're going to make crazy allegations then I hope they attack the infertile people for practicing dark magic or something.
     
  16. Emberstone

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    dont try to teach logic to religious zealots; they are willfully ignorant, and therefore, should not be allowed to hold any position that makes decisions about other peoples lives.
     
  17. ArcherySet

    ArcherySet Guest

    That sounds like blasphemy from the corrupt, secular Liberal to me! Demonologist! Fag Enabler! Wiccan! You will doom this nation! The wombs will be spoiled! The milk will spoil! Frogs will fall from the sky! The rivers will turn to blood!

    Only a straight, married couple can produce offspring. Only 1 man and 1 woman can raise a successful, normal, happy, productive, non suicidal, non homicidal, healthy human being, and every human raised by 1 man and 1 woman turns into a happy, healthy, productive member of the community.

    Anything contrary to this perfected, holy formula is the Anti-Life Equation!
     
    #17 ArcherySet, Oct 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2012
  18. Ticklish Fish

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,372
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Internet; H-town
    Not a maternity doctor, but do wombs spoil the same way as milk?
    (the sarcasm is too damn high here)
     
  19. Emberstone

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    whatever womb Ann Coulter crawled out of was rancid.