Student asks to remain at all-female university after transitioning to male

Well clearly that college is no longer female exclusive...

 

its not an unresonable request, when you think about it. if they are a good student, and have put in all the work and just need a few more credits, its rather annoying to have to switch colleges, and risk having a completely different degree requirements, and have to retake alot of things.

 

Well, I could understand if he only has a few credits left to fulfill to let him stay but I wouldn't oppose the university if they decided otherwise. If you're a male, going to an all-female university is out of the question.

 

If they allow this it will set a precedent and possibly open the door to transwomen to attend those colleges. I think that would be a positive development.

 

This is an interesting topic to me because of a debate that is developing in a lesbian organization that I belong to.

The position I've taken in that debate is that it would be absolutely wrong for us to expel members as a consequence of their coming out to us about their gender identity. I have therefore suggested that the best policy is simply to have an absolute non-discrimination policy regarding gender. The goals of the organization are all very specifically lesbian-related, and I don't think a lot of straight cisguys are going to be beating down our doors.

However, I do understand the desire to create organizations and communities that are, at any rate, female-centered. For a university, I think changing the overall admissions policy would result in a very mixed student body, which is what they don't want.

In my own organization, I am trying for just allowing men, because I don't want to treat transgender men as a special class of men. But I'm willing to compromise, and say that while transgender men are not to be considered differently from other men, those that are closeted in our organization are in a special situation.

(I also think that only by allowing men can we make the choir open to all women, since some women are closeted and living as men, having been assigned male at birth. But whereas the exclusion of men creates for transwomen an incentive to come out if they wish to join our organization, it creates for transmen what could be a very negative consequence to coming out, adding to the pressure on them to remain closeted. And so I think that is much worse.)

Men who were assigned female at birth are already the people they are while they are in the closet, before they transition. They are already men.

Therefore, expelling people when they transition does not result in their being no men in the organization. It results in there being a closeted population that knows that they will be expelled if they come out. Furthermore, since the ones that are out necessarily leave the organization, there is no one to speak for the ones still in the closet.

To my mind, those are inherently bad things.

(Incidentally, the organization I am a part of already allows transwomen. The current language is that members must identify as female. But some of us feel that that is very problematic, both for the reasons stated above and because it makes no acknowledgement of people who do not identify within the gender binary.)

Consider this policy as similar to what I might suggest for a women's college's policy regarding transmen. (It doesn't mention transwomen at all, which it should, but you can get an idea.

Anyway, I'd be very interested in hearing the opinions of transgender people on this issue.

 

Here is how I take it: "...I WAS thinking I was female freshman year and wanted to be in all woman's school, sophomore year began questioning and coming out, Junior year told everybody and began to take hormones, I want to be first man to graduate at an all girls college don't discriminate against me..."

Okay, now how me personally feel about my own situation. I wanted to be in a sorority last year because it served a lot of kids, and I wanted to be really popular and be seen as a great female...and I was trying hard to be ultra-female. Came out in April, in August went to school as male. Everything there outs me as female by use of birth name. I now wanted to be in a fraternity, but I did not want myself to make them feel akward as my body is so female and even if one guy was really uncomfy with me I would not feel proud of myself. I was put in private room but in a suite on women's side next to an old woman. Hate it.

Back home, last year I was invited on FB to join Deaf Ladies Night Out group, which is an opportunity to meat other deaf and sign. I found out they are ADAMANT no men are allowed! I felt weird about that from start. By the time I began wearing mens clothing, I really felt like I should NOT be there. Last one I went to was a birthday party and I focused on putting up decorations and taking photos. I felt really bad being there. I came out to ONE of the members as she I trusted not to gossip and wanted me to go before school resumes. I explained I am a man, and men can't go, and I have felt it wrong that men can't even drop off a wife and come in one moment...and I am there the whole time. I told her it is sad but I also don't feel I have a right to start a Deaf Men's Only Night, because well physically I am unchanged. She said I am exempt, that diversity is good, that other transmen go (also they have not fully transitioned and use female names). So I told her I will never be going again because I find it unethical for me to do so if no cis-men can go, as I consider me to be a man...so to say I am exempt is to say because I am born female I get privilege that a man born male does not deserve.

So, either we say it is illegal to have any just women or just men anything, or we don't change things now....once you are sure you are male, drop out of the female stuff and go fight for right to male stuff. If I so choose, I will ask about frat stuff with somebody safe on campus, if I had went to uni last year, I would step down gracefully this year and apologize even though I don't have to...because I don't want to be a cheat.

 

I'm one of those Transwomen who plans to go 100% in all the surgeries/feminizations and such to utterly and completely wring every possible ounce of even ambiguous maleness from myself for good. So, naturally, a female only space that includes Transwomen is appealing.

 

Not being transgendered her is my "outsider view". I feel like once you make your transition and start identifying as the gender of which your mind is set, go all the way or go home. (not saying go out and get surgery or to be harsh, just an expression) either stay your born gender and follow those rules or follow the rules of the gender that you identify as.

Personally as a guy, I'd feel more comfortable with a transguy(ftm is what I mean here) hanging out at a guys night then a transgirl(mtf) who lets be honest, probably doesn't want to be there anyway.

 

And why would they not want to be there?

Your gender doesn't dictate the gender of the friends you have, nor the types of activities you engage in.

 

^Of couse not....that was a generalization, but it wasn't made without cause.

oh and DeafNotBlind....IMHO the only reason you should need to start a hangout group is to want to hangout (and if someone brings beer it's always a plus) lol

 

I would hate to be in that student's situation. Who knows how and why they decided to go there or if they even had the choice but that would suck to have to leave if they've completed coursework there but idk. Trans men are men no matter what though and if I was a studet at the school and was expecting it to be a school for women, I would feel a little weird about a man being allowed to be in a women's only space simply for being trans.

 

yeah, but this is a trans MAN!

---------- Post added 13th Jan 2013 at 08:38 PM ----------

You are not deaf, but you are invited!

---------- Post added 13th Jan 2013 at 08:53 PM ----------

the reason the women of the deaf group are women ONLY, is because most are married, and they want one day a month to just be free of the men and children and not even be bothered by texts.

I guess I can undy that. I read how hearing terps students at my school hunger once in a while to talk so they go off campus just with hearings to talk.

Whatever.

But, I assume that the reason for all girls school originated not just of some religion, but of feminism...the kind that said women are able to go to upper education just as can men. I know that in the past many colleges were male only, so women only ones made sense.

We have may not NEED all women colleges anymore, but do we really want to have no times or places where a woman can get away from all men...and do we really want to have not times or places where a man can get away from all women?

And in the end, where does a non-transitioned, and mid-transitioned trans person belong? I would have to say if I say I am male, I belong with the men's groups...and if they are not willing to accept me I can fight it or let it go, but an offer of kindness by women to join them will actually make my dysphoria worse, it is kind but an insult to my internal manhood.

 

I dont see why we do. Modern gender specific schooling is often just because of traditional titles. Similar to any "Black" college, or Catholic school. None of these are meant to be definite these days, they are just still refered to as such because of traditional references. An education system is not meant to get away from "anything". A women's night out serves an entirely different purpose than gender schooling.

My opinion is that he or she should have the right staff or leave. Both are justified decisions.

 

you meant stay or leave not staff, right?

 

Of course >_>

 

You are thinking of this from the perspective of it being a stranger. This situation is as if it were a friend of yours who's been going to "guy's night" with you for some time previously, and then came out that she identifies as female. Do you her she's no longer welcome? Even if it will obviously hurt her and she really wants to go?

In these cases, the person is already a member of the organization/student at the school, and has done nothing wrong. But should be expelled, according to your logic. A consequence that is normally reserved for serious misconduct.

It is not trans people's fault that their physical appearance causes them to be mistaken for the wrong gender. They should not have to be punished because of it. They should not have to lose all the communities that they belong to, just for telling the truth about who they really are.

Living in the closet with the feeling that you can't come out because you don't really belong, if people knew the truth about you, is terrible. Sometimes people feel like they just can't bear to lose all the things they will lose by coming out, but also can't bear to live any longer as the wrong gender. Then, sometimes, they commit suicide.


We can help by making it so that there are fewer negative consequences to coming out.

In this particular case, it's also unfair that he should have to transfer schools because it's possible that not all of his credits will apply at a different school.

 

^ wow, you're right. Now I feel like an ass for my first comment. hm....idk I think that not having dealt with that issue or really anything to do with the trans community I think I'd better just stfu before I get myself into trouble.

 

something sounded funny so i did my sleuthing. he is not worrying about going to school there, they do allow men.

he wants to live with the girls in the girls dorm.

no men live on campus. he wants to live with girls.

this is a religiously founded Moravian college, oldest one in country for women.

"An undergraduate at all-female Salem College is asking to remain on campus after undergoing an operation in February to complete his transition to a man, and college officials are looking at whether to create a policy on transgender students.
Founded in 1772 by Moravians, Salem College is a four-year liberal-arts school for women. It has enrollment of 1,100 students, including men who are 23 and older who take undergraduate courses at the Fleer Center for Adult Education. However, only female students are allowed to live on campus, according to the school’s website.
Michelle Melton, a college spokeswoman, declined to identify the student who is becoming a man, citing federal educational privacy laws and Salem’s privacy policies.
The issue has upset Annie Webb, a 2005 Salem graduate, who sent an email to fellow alumnae on Jan. 5 that said a traditional student will be undergoing gender reassignment surgery in February — going from female to male – and plans to continue his education as a student living on campus."


soo....it is not about being kicked out of school at all, as I had been led to think. this is about a transman who doesn't want to move out of women's dorm and live off campus like the rest of the men have to do. Again, i am a man myself, i do not like living next to a woman on female side of a dorm. if i were to be in a Greek house i would not want to be in a girls only sorority. i don't care if he is a gay man, all men live off campus cuz its a girl's school so they made girl's dorms and men live in houses or condos or apartments. big freaking deal! my old college had NO dorms, and we all lived off campus. i say he wants to have his cake and eat it too...he should not be exempt. get an apartment dude! be a man.

 

Exactly. Presumably this person didn't fit in with the girls at this uni.

And who's to say the female students would be comfortable with a male there? And the roommate situation.

Why are their feelings taking a backseat here? l can't say l feel any genuine empathy for them or that l would even care if there was an MTF or biological male on campus but it's interesting to consider why nobody is thinking of them.

Seems like if you aren't part of a group that's being oppressed in an obvious way now you
r experience isn't really relevant.

l say instead of avoiding the victimhood mentality all together, we identify new ways in which we are ALL victims of society and go from there.*


*Except not. At all. Because that would make life awful.