1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Secular opposition to gay marriage

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Reptillian, Jan 23, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Reptillian

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Most of us, if not all of us have heard of the speech that the biblical arguments which refers to passages that objects to homosexuality has been winning against any arguments which supports or acknowledges homosexuality without any objections. But, usually a person that's saying these speeches completely overlooks the fact that there are secular opposition and there are even secular countries that have not legalized gay marriages. It is also entirely possible for an anti-theistic athiest to team up with a devout christian that is opposed to gay marriage in order to protest it even if the atheist in question does not agree with the biblical way of thinking. One example of a large secular opposition to gay marriage is the France's secular opposition. I am trying to find examples of countries that are secular to gay marriage (I think one of them has to do with Korea or something something which I know is located near there).

    Can everyone help on creating a list of currently active secular opposition to gay marriages and secular countries that have not legalized gay marriage?
     
    #1 Reptillian, Jan 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  2. Mogget

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,397
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    New England
    The Republican Party and the United States of America. But that isn't what you meant, is it?
     
  3. Meropspusillus

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New Mexico
    I would be willing to bet that most secular opposition to same sex marriage is deeply routed in non-secular values. People are hypocrites.

    That being said, I can't really think of an answer to the question you've posed.
     
  4. madi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    In your wildest dreams
    the republican party is largely comprised of Christians so I'm not sure that counts as a "secular opposition". Also France is a historically Catholic country and most French label themselves as Catholics even today so again it really isn't a secular issue there either.
     
  5. Emberstone

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    dont equate republican with christanity; the bible itself rejects the notion.

    Republicans pursue a contradictory philosphy known as the teaching of Ayn Rand. Christanity is just a smokescreen. if you look at so-called republican christians, then look at the things jesus actually says, then the contradictions are impossible to miss.
     
  6. Rakkaus

    Rakkaus Guest

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    878
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    New York
    The Republican Party is definitely not a 'secular' opponent of gay marriage. The party's platform on social issues like gay rights is pretty much written by the Religious Right.

    As for France, I think much of the opposition is coming from rural religious types being stirred up against marriage equality by the Catholic Church.

    Not to say there aren't ostensibly secular types opposed to equality, but in nearly any case their opposition comes from an irrational homophobia rooted in tradition no different from believing in religious dogma.
     
  7. madi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    In your wildest dreams
    Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality....never came up. The bible on the other hand does say a few (albeit contradictory) things. I did not mean to make it seem like I was saying republicanism= Christianity , but I feel like it should be taken into account that republicans tend to identify as some denomination of Christianity although I guess the same could be said for the third of Americans that identify as such also. Anyway I know they are two seperate groups, but there is quite a bit of overlap.
     
  8. Eric

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,551
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    1
    I've never seen nor heard any sort of secular argument against same sex marriage that didn't involve opposition to government involvement with marriage as a whole.
     
  9. Linthras

    Linthras Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Leeuwarden (FR), the Netherlands
    I have yet to find a secular argument that's not either "eww anal sex" or some form of teleological argument like: "Sex is for procreation" "Woman was made for man" "It's unnatural".
    And teleological arguments are basically religious.
    So the only secular argument I'm aware of is fear of the unknown and fixation on anal sex.
     
  10. Kay

    Kay Guest

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    The only secular argument I have ever heard is that two men together is yucky and two women together is an awesome fantasy.:roflmao: I really don't think there is one, perhaps some of the homophobia is based on the role models that have been set up and not religious values. Hugs guys you are all sweethearts and not yucky at all. smoooches
     
  11. Zontar

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Binghampton, NY
    I have heard one argument that assumes homosexuality is a medical/mental health pathology, but this is part of a larger argument as a whole. It's a tough one to argue, because there really isn't any scientific proof of its normalcy or its functional purpose, and its practice does seem to result in weaker quality relationships and higher rates of disease, supporting the pathology hypothesis. Quite possibly, it was the single good argument I've heard against it, and it still makes me question everything I've built my life on.
     
  12. Reptillian

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Implying inspired by religious thoughts equals religious when there are so many examples that goes against it. And asides, we do have observations that there are homophobia even before christianity was dissenting against gay marriage during the falls which may not even have to do with religion.

    I"ll go research on secular country and make a long analysis since none of you are giving me the answer that I want. Heard tons of them already.
     
  13. Linthras

    Linthras Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Leeuwarden (FR), the Netherlands
    Allow me to banish your concerns:
    1. Something being abnormal doesn't make it an illness. Being gay is just as abnormal as being left-handed, yet being left-handed isn't considered 'abnormal' in any sense but the bare objective definition.
    2. With regards to the quality of relationships and disease rates, let's check with the facts/experts:
    From the APA, the American Psychological Association (and every other American medical and psychological association):
    Sexual orientation, homosexuality and bisexuality
     
  14. Kay

    Kay Guest

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    The US is a secular country or was meant to be but religion has stuck it's foot in the door. The churches get involved in politics but the government is damned if they set even a toe in a church.
     
  15. Eric

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,551
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    1
    Most first world countries are considered secular, or have it written into the constitution in one way or another that they are a secular state, but one way or another religious customs, doctrine, and tradition often find themselves influencing policy.

    Just out of sheer curiousity, what answer is it that you want?
     
  16. Linthras

    Linthras Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Leeuwarden (FR), the Netherlands
    Impossible.
    If an argument is inspired by religious thought, it is by definition a religious argument.

    What are you referring to with 'during the falls'?
    Can you name a single secular argument against homosexuality that's not teleological?
    Mere claiming there are such arguments doesn't make it true.
    There were many religions before Christianity after all.

    Then it shouldn't be hard to present one....
     
  17. mnguy

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,377
    Likes Received:
    450
    Location:
    Mountain hermitage
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    WAIT, what is the, "One example of a large secular opposition to gay marriage is the France's secular opposition."?
     
  18. Linthras

    Linthras Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Leeuwarden (FR), the Netherlands
    "It's unnatural"
    [​IMG]

    So basically, teleological arguments based on ignorance and fear of the other.
     
  19. justinf

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    42
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Well, I know 18% in my country votes against same-sex marriages (yes, 82% votes in favor, pretty awesome!), and of that 18%, most aren't religious. Most just feel like marriage is by definition something between a man and a woman (and I'm not talking about a marriage in church; that's a whole other thing), and we can't go and simply change the definitions. Others think gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt children, because it wouldn't be in the best interest for the child, and they somehow connect that with marriage.

    Also, on a side note, the majority of French people is in favor of same-sex marriage.
     
  20. Linthras

    Linthras Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Leeuwarden (FR), the Netherlands
    All based on teleology. "It's meant to be X".
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.