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Ethical Trash Still Holding Up VAWA

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Pret Allez, Feb 25, 2013.

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  1. Pret Allez

    Pret Allez
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    I don't understand how it's possible to have a moral disagreement more fundamental than this. It's the Violence Against Women Act. It should cover violence against women, no matter what kind of a woman you are. For House Republicans* to have a moral objection in such a clear case begs the question "why should we trust their judgment at any other time?" I definitely feel for the moral thoughtful conservatives who find this kind of posturing deeply embarrassing.

    *: I'm not saying Republicans are ethical trash, merely the ones who oppose this measure. If you are willing to bring down all of VAWA because you don't want protections extended to undocumented immigrants, native Americans in tribal jurisdictions and gay women, you're evil, no matter your political party.
     
    #1 Pret Allez, Feb 25, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  2. Emberstone

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    I will say that republicans are unethical trash. They call themselves christians, then tell jesus to go fuck off, and replace his teachings with Ayn Rands, which says that helping the poor is evil, and you should take everything for yourself, including other peoples things.
     
    #2 Emberstone, Feb 25, 2013
  3. Clowstar

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    they're nothing but racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, etc. hypocrites anymore. i understand and can respect fiscal conservatism. the socially conservative people? they need to enter this century.
     
    #3 Clowstar, Feb 25, 2013
  4. Argentwing

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    Those are the reasons I registered Democrat. However, those people are not what conservatism is about either. They are just like liberals in nearly every respect, except a hundred times more bigoted and selfish. I'm glad there are a few voices out there that still speak pure reason, but nobody listens to them. Only the people that make me lose faith in humanity.
     
    #4 Argentwing, Feb 25, 2013
  5. Pret Allez

    Pret Allez
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    This thread doesn't invite you to condemn Republicans as evil or make negative statements about them. We need to be able to differentiate between individual conservatives and members of Congress. Rather, the thread invites us to consider whether the Republican leadership has learned anything from Rapegate and the last election. As I have argued strenuously before, bigotry lost them the election. It wasn't that Obama or the Democrats are amazing (they aren't). The problem is more that Romney and the Republicans were made to look like monsters. Rather than act on that analysis and work post-haste to change American perception of the party ahead of the 2014 mid-term elections, it is continuing to be a wildly unethical and irresponsible opposition party.

    Conservatives may complain that the Democrats are making VAWA political and trying to "sneak" protections they know Republicans are opposed to so as to poison the legislation and make them look bad when they stick to their guns by opposing the Senate version with the old House version. My answer to that would be that all that's happening is that the Republican leadership is being forced to explain it's position as the opposition party to the country. It is being forced to make a compelling argument for why violence against women is not a critical enough to warrant reauthorization. It is being forced to explain why indigenous women, queers, and undocumented immigrants, all of whom are survivors too, are less human. They are being forced to explain their sexual fascism, and they are having a hard time of it. That's not called the Democrats playing underhanded political tricks. That's called being hoisted on your own petard.

    Mind you, I still disagree with conservatives on economic issues, and I think the realization of Austrian economics would result in economic ruin as Keynes told Hayek. But my sense of charity and honor requires that I at least extend my sympathies to our conservative friends who are now being embarrassed by the political ineptitude of a party now disconnected from their control.
     
    #5 Pret Allez, Feb 25, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  6. Aldrick

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    Yeah, not supporting the Violence Against Women Act is insanely reprehensible. Opposing it isn't even popular; as far as I'm aware the vast majority of Americans (Democrats, Independents, AND Republicans) support it. There is no political upside to opposing it, unless you're trying to score political points with a tiny fraction of people on the very extreme right.

    And despite it's name, the Violence Against Women Act also covers men as well.

    "(8) NONEXCLUSIVITY.—Nothing in this title shall be construed to prohibit male victims of domestic violence, dating violence, sexual assault, and stalking from receiving benefits and services under this title."

    At least that's what it looked like in a prior incarnation. Whose to say what we'll ultimately end up with today. Quite honestly, just politically speaking, any sane and rational Republican who likes to win national elections supporting this is either insane or stupid. This is basically a full on embrace of "legitimate rape." The last thing you want to be seen as is the party of legitimate rape.

    My mind literally cannot wrap itself around what they're doing; there is no benefit or upside to it. Forget about ethics, it isn't even good politics on their part. Oh well, I guess that's the good news. I hope the Democrats work hard to permanently stamp the Republican party as the party of "legitimate rape." People that stupid or insane just don't need to be in elected office.
     
    #6 Aldrick, Feb 25, 2013
  7. Caudex

    Caudex Guest

    Ummm, no. Republicans are not necessarily horrible people. I have plenty of Republican friends. Even if they are against BLTG (omnomnom) people, I still like them, because they're nice and it's just their ideology with which I disagree, and ideology is often fixed from a young age anyway.
     
    #7 Caudex, Feb 25, 2013
  8. Pret Allez

    Pret Allez
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    And like I said. The point is not to bash on Republicans here. The point is to maybe think about why the Republicans feel trapped in self-destructive service to their base. What the Republicans need to do is rebuild their coalition from the ground up, and it needs not to include religious fundamentalists.

    If conservative leadership told them all to sit in a corner until they learned a sense of civics, they'd sweep 2014 mid-term elections.
     
    #8 Pret Allez, Feb 25, 2013
  9. Mike92

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    The far right-wingers are destructing the party. But there are also reasonable Republicans.
     
    #9 Mike92, Feb 25, 2013
  10. SupremeEmperor

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    All due respect Pret, but there is one too many pieces of ethical trash in the Republican Party to not blacklist them all.
     
    #10 SupremeEmperor, Feb 26, 2013
  11. Pret Allez

    Pret Allez
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    Well it looks like the Forces of Evil lose again, though I am unable to tell if the expanded protections for undocumented immigrants were preserved. It looks like the Republicans were trying to hamstring tribal courts with respect to trying cases of sexual violence. I cannot think of a single justification for this.
     
    #11 Pret Allez, Feb 28, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  12. Aldrick

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    It's good news. I knew they'd eventually cave, the politics were so bad on this that it was impossible for them not too.

    The downside for the Republicans is that not only did they lose the battle, but now they're still going to be tagged as being against women for blocking it in the first place. It's not as bad as if they had blocked it, but still...

    ...there is no political upside to them for this. They're just idiots. I mean, seriously, whoever is giving Republicans political advice needs to be fired ASAP; that or someone needs to step up and slap some of those stupid SOB's in the House for the good of their party. Hell it's better for Republicans to LOSE the House, than have people like this tarnish their party. At least when you're out of power you can lay the blame for everything bad happening in the country on the opposition.

    The Republican Party needs another William Buckley type of figure, who isn't afraid to stand up and purge the party of the crazy people; just as Buckley purged the crazy John Birch "the commies are mind controlling us through the water supply" Society back in his day.
     
    #12 Aldrick, Feb 28, 2013
  13. Caudex

    Caudex Guest

    …That's incredibly offensive.
    In fact, it's a lot like saying, "Oh, more African Americans commit crimes per capita, so it must be that they're all criminals."
    I don't understand all the Republican hate here. There are plenty of Republicans who either don't care or are pro-gay.
     
    #13 Caudex, Feb 28, 2013
  14. Pret Allez

    Pret Allez
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    While I can appreciate the sentiment, I think that Mr. Buckley Jr. was a very caustic individual.

    And I agree. This is pretty much just damage control at this point.
     
    #14 Pret Allez, Feb 28, 2013
  15. Fugs

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    It actually passed, I'm glad.
     
    #15 Fugs, Feb 28, 2013
  16. Pret Allez

    Pret Allez
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    #16 Pret Allez, Feb 28, 2013
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