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LGBT News Waitress fired for cross-dressing at work

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by BradThePug, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. BradThePug

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    More here

    UPDATE: The woman has been rehired, but I'm not sure that I would want to work someplace where I only got rehired because of media coverage..
     
  2. Revan

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    Yeah...neither would I
     
  3. PrinceOfAvalon

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    Lol I would have gave her a warning if it was in my dress code that you couldn't and i ran the place or was in charge.

    From what I can tell, it wasn't "full on" drag either. I do have to wonder what the specifics of the dress code are though... like does it say specifically "No cross-dressing"? - then its another story, but i can understand how professionally it could be distracting - although this case hardly warrants that much either-.-

    Apparently she asked if she could though, and they said no, and she still did it... I don't want the media to think that LGBT peeps are abusing their rights or whatever and accusing everyone else of being homophobes, even if A LOT of people still are homophobes in reality.

    You can get fired for misconduct, or violating policy (even dress code) so i think its justified, although typically topics like this are homophobic in intent, We can't be sure.

    This leaves me conflicted on certain things... :x
     
  4. Hun

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    But she asked in advance and her employer said no and she did it anyway. I don't think firing her was appropriate, but she should have been punished in some other way.
     
  5. Jinkies

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    I think I may be the only one to say that it's more her fault than theirs. They gave clear, specific black and white rules, and for a reason: There was a dress code, and she violated it. She even asked "Can I do this?" And they said "no" and she did it, anyway. Going against what the boss said was what got her fired, not discrimination. That's a very rational, normal reason to fire someone. If they go against the boss, they should at least have some form of punishment.
     
  6. justjade

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    You know, I'm torn. I work in a restaurant, so I understand the importance of dress code. However, I do think she has the right to dress how she wants. Sure, I wouldn't fire her for it, but disciplinary action would have to be taken. People can't just think they are above the rules because of their beliefs. She did ask in advance, and they told her she couldn't, and yet she did it anyway. There are ways to show pride without going overboard.
     
  7. Byron

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    This. Although firing her might have been a bit much, from the info we are given anyway. There could be extenuating circumstances.
     
  8. Tim

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    She asked and was told no.

    People will disagree with me, but I think they shouldn't have rehired. They gave her an answer. She did it anyway. If you go against what you boss says, you get fired. Pretty simple.

    And based on the article, they have specific dress codes, which she violated.

    Honestly, I really wish people would stop making every little thing out to be a hate thing.
     
  9. Hun

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    I agree. This seems less a discrimination case and more of a case of insubordination.
     
  10. Candace

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    Well...she asked about it and they said no. So...she knew what was coming....no surprise here.
     
  11. Hexagon

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    Just because there are clear rules doesn't mean they are fair.
     
  12. Aldrick

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    While I understand the response everyone else has had, I think those who are supporting the employer are not looking at the bigger picture. It's a situation where I think people are missing the forests for the trees.

    Let's assume that she were trans, which I should point out she is not - she was merely dressing in drag to support the LGBT community. So, imagine the situation where she was trans and had been working at this place presenting as her biological sex. Everyone there would know her as a female, her employer as well as the customers. However, she decides to begin coming out and to start to transition. Now she wants to begin presenting as a male.

    Now, imagine if she went to management and told them this - what would someone who was truly trans do? Would they be fired, just like she was for "cross dressing"? Wouldn't this policy be a problem for someone who is trans, and is just starting to transition?

    So, I commend her for her actions, and for standing up even at the risk of her job. By doing this she is forcing at least one employer to reexamine their gender binary policies.
     
  13. Tim

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    That is a COMPLETELY different situation though Aldrick.

    In fact, it's kind of offensive to equate being trans to simply dressing in drag one day and never going back.

    There is a difference between a boss not being okay with a trans person beginning to transition and not being okay with an employee dressing in drag, male or female.

    We do not know what would have happened if she were trans and started the transition. In fact, due to laws in most states, she couldn't have been fired for that. However, dressing in drag violates a dress code. Plain and Simple. It's completely different from transitioning.
     
  14. Aldrick

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    Tim -

    I'm aware that being trans and cross dressing are two different things. I was not trying to imply that they were the same. This is exactly why I pointed out that she was not trans.

    However, many trans people are treated exactly like this under those circumstances, and her explicit intent in cross dressing was to show support and raise awareness.

    I simply do not believe that most businesses (run by non-LGBT people) are going to draw the obvious distinctions.

    It also leaves out people who may identify as their birth sex, but express outside of the gender binary such as those who are gender queer or androgynous. This policy impacts them as well.
     
  15. Jinkies

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    I never said the rules were fair. I was simply saying that this is a perfectly acceptable reason to fire someone. People have gotten fired for even more ridiculous reasons such as getting tagged in a picture on Facebook drinking, or at least having and alcoholic beverage by them in the picture.

    What she was trying to say was that she was fired out of discrimination, when this clearly wasn't the case. If you ask a boss or a parent if you can do something, and they clearly say "no", then don't do it. If you go against your orders unless it's to save someone's life, you're going to get punished.

    Also, those rules were fair: Everybody wears their uniform/Everybody follows this dress code. It had more of a professional reason than an anti-LGBT reason. Also, she was doing this on the day of silence. While it may seem all nice and caring to us, it probably annoyed more LGBT members, since the whole point was to stay silent. Her better option was to maybe wear a shirt that could have followed the dress code and also raised awareness, since she couldn't actually be silent because she was waiting tables.
     
    #15 Jinkies, Jun 19, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2013
  16. Bobbybobby99

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    Dressing in drag isn't really something that is a good idea when working. And yeah, it would be day of silence, not of half-drag. Like a rainbow t-shirt, or something.
     
  17. Aldrick

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    This is true, but is another topic all together. Employers having the ability to fire people for things they do outside of work... is... frightening. It should terrify everyone, and there should be laws that prevent such actions. Imagine being fired because you wrote an op ed or were tagged in a picture at a political rally. Ugh.

    This is a frightening point of view. Boss / Parent does not = Master. Employee does not = Slave. With this statement you've just effectively erased the rights of every worker.

    "Can I have a fair wage?" "No." "Okay."

    "Can I have a safer work environment?" "No." "Okay."

    "Can I go on strike and protest my lack of fair wages and safe work environment?" "No." "Okay."

    Those two statements are in conflict. You either think the rules are fair or not, and I'm going to guess that you do considering you followed up with the following statement.

    There are a number of things here, so I'll try to address them one at a time.

    1. If she has a uniform then she probably can't wear a shirt that raises support and shows awareness.

    2. The whole point of staying silent isn't to be invisible and unseen. It's to raise awareness. Thus, someone who is participating in the day of silence may walk around with some tape over their mouth to draw attention to the fact that they are silent - that's how protests work. They are meant to draw attention, not be invisible. Also, unless I missed something, this had nothing to do with the day of silence.

    3. No, there doesn't have to be a more "professional reason" for her being fired. Her employer was clear: she was fired for cross dressing after being told that she could not cross dress. She did it anyway as a sign of protest. I'm apt to take them at their word.

    Now, this brings us to the issue of fairness. I'm going to assume that those who are cis-gendered women are allowed to wear makeup as part of their dress code, as well as having longer hair. What would happen if a man decided to wear makeup and have longer hair? If that violates their dress code (and I'm pretty sure it would), then that would be discrimination and decidedly unfair. The only "fair" policy is one that applies to everyone equally. Thus, if an employer wants to have a dress code in which those who self-identify as men don't come to work with makeup, he must also forbid those who self-identify as women from wearing makeup. If those who self identify as women can wear dresses then those who self identify as men should be able to do so as well.

    You cannot have a policy that sets a standard for one group of employees and not another and call it fair. I'm rather certain a guy who cross dressed as well, wearing a dress, would be fired - even if a woman was allowed to wear one.

    A policy is only fair if it is blind to gender - in some places, women are expected to wear makeup, or wear a skirt, or dress a certain way that men are not required to do. This is the same thing as the above - different standards for different people.
     
  18. SohoDreamer

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    I don't think this is a case of discrimination. If someone purposely violates a rule, they should be disciplined. I don't know how fair it was for her to be fired here, although since she had already asked and been given an outright no, I understand why they fired her as her act was clearly rebellious.

    Rules are in place for a reason and she shouldn't be exempt from them. She has every right to complain about them, take them to court, anything like that. But just violating them like that is clear insubordination and in this case has nothing to do with discrimination.
     
  19. Aldrick

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    I would argue differently, and say that there is a difference between seeking to be exempt from the rules, vs seeking to raise awareness about the rules and then to have them change for everyone.
     
  20. Jinkies

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    Aldrick, if you look at the last paragraph of the article, it says Harveys is setting up rules for those who want to dress in drag. So again, the company isn't discriminating. The entire thing wasn't about discrimination, but simply insubordination.

    Also, I didn't say she had to be invisible on Day of Silence. I said she could wear a t-shirt or something else that would have also followed the dress code. As for a uniform, she could possibly wear a button, ribbon or bracelet. There are alternatives.