thread deletion? - Empty Closets - A safe online community for gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered people coming out

joeyconnick · 10th Jul 2009, 11:01 PM

Can I ask why This is why I need Emmett Cullen/Kellan Lutz in my life... was deleted?

The one by BeautifulStranger about Kellan Lutz?

**Victor** · 10th Jul 2009, 11:11 PM

I wasn't the one that deleted it, as I don't have that capability... But I did see the thread, and I believe it's because the picture wasn't PG-13. And if I remember correctly, there was a caption on it that would clearly explain why, if you didn't see it in the pic.

joeyconnick · 10th Jul 2009, 11:19 PM

Well if that's the case, when did a hint of pubic hair start signifying non-PG-13? You can't see anything about his equipment. And in fact he's so shaved you can barely see pubic hair. Would it be PG-13 if he'd been fully shaved?

**Martin** · 10th Jul 2009, 11:30 PM

Anything below the waistline that reveals bulges or the pubic area (shaved or not) has always been removed. It's a policy that has been enforced before many of the staff (even myself) joined the team, and it's one that is frequently enforced inside celebrity picture threads in fun and games, such as the hot males thread.

Whether or not it's suitable for a PG-13 site isn't up to me or anybody else to call. The staff who deal with these are told what standards we're expected to follow and we follow them. It's not our place to review pictures on an individual basis and decide whether we think they're unsuitable or not. If it has something shown that we're told is not allowed (in this case the exposure of the pubic area) then we remove it.

Paul_UK · 11th Jul 2009, 02:39 AM

Some may suggest that a certain amount of pubic hair or a certain amount of bulge is OK, while more isn't. But when you start taking that sort of approach it becomes more subjective and difficult to quantify. How much is "some" and how can we ensure that questionable images are dealt with consistently by different staff?

By setting a definable threshold we all know what is OK and what isn't and can deal with things efficiently without needing much discussion about whether or not a certain image passes or not.

The definition was set by the site owners early-on, it works, and we see no reason to change it.

George · 11th Jul 2009, 03:40 AM

If you guys were really enforcing this rule properly then this thread would have been deleted ages ago.

A few examples of some pictures on the thread. >_>

And there's loads more throughout the thread. >_>

**Martin** · 11th Jul 2009, 03:55 AM

Well it may surprise you to know, but we don't just sit there watching every single post that gets posted on the site. That thread has been warned enough and is now being discussed about a permanent removal now that it has been brought to our attention, but just because they're visible doesn't mean we've ignored them. You would find multiple posts inside that thread from staff warning members, so let's not do selective quoting here because I could find a lot more deleted photos in there that we have spotted and dealt with.

Edit: As for the hot girls game thread, that's being discussed with staff who are more familiar with its thread history.

George · 11th Jul 2009, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin

Well it may surprise you to know, but we don't just sit there watching every single post that gets posted on the site.

[palmface] No shit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin

That thread has been warned enough and is now being discussed about a permanent removal now that it has been brought to our attention, but just because they're visible doesn't mean we've ignored them. You would find multiple posts inside that thread from staff warning members, so let's not do selective quoting here because I could find a lot more deleted photos in there that we have spotted and dealt with.

Edit: As for the hot girls game thread, that's being discussed with staff who are more familiar with its thread history.

It's just worrying that there's been posts in there from a long time ago which haven't been attended to by staff members.. Like a LONG time ago, and staff members have posted in there since.

**Maddy** · 11th Jul 2009, 05:12 AM

It's easy for something to get buried in a thread as long as that. If someone sees something questionable, it's best to report it because we might not have seen it. We make mistakes or don't notice things sometimes, because we're human, but we do try.

**Chip** · 11th Jul 2009, 12:52 PM

Hi, George,

I don't know if you've ever moderated a large forum with a huge number of new posts every day, but it really isn't as easy as it might seem. There is no process where every post passes by a moderator's eyes automatically. The mods all read the threads on the board every day, and anything egregious will certainly get caught, but it's inevitable that things will slip through. And that's why the community reporting system exists, because the eyes of thousands of users are going to catch things that the eyes of a dozen staff members might not.

Likewise, it is nearly impossible to write policy that can be applied with 100% consistency 100% of the time by different moderators. I've moderated a number of boards, and I happen to think that the policies that EC has established over the years are a lot more complete and consistent than most of the other communities I've been involved with. But there's always a judgement call, and you can't guarantee that every moderator will always make the exact same judgement. But on the whole, I think the moderators at EC are a lot more consistent, and speak with a unified voice more frequently than the mod teams on many other boards I've been involved with.

It's simply impossible to produce policy that will cover every instance and every situation. That's why, for example, we have the Supreme Court in the US; so they can look at the law and interpret it in a given situation, thus ensuring that a multitude of viewpoints and opinions will be considered. And even then, in a famous Supreme Court decision regarding what is obscene, one of the judges said "I can't define obscenity in writing, but i know it when I see it."

So sometimes, with the best of policies, we're still left with that. There may not always be 100% agreement -- you can never please everyone -- but I think EC staff does a pretty good job on the whole.

10th Jul 2009, 11:01 PM	#1
joeyconnick sine qua non Full Member Gender: Male Orientation: Gay Out Status: Out to everyone Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 3,332 Join Date: Apr 2005	thread deletion? Can I ask why This is why I need Emmett Cullen/Kellan Lutz in my life... was deleted? The one by BeautifulStranger about Kellan Lutz?

10th Jul 2009, 11:11 PM	#2
Victor Moo EC Moderator Gender: Male Orientation: Gay Out Status: Pretty damn out Location: California Age: 21 Posts: 1,972 Join Date: Aug 2008	Re: thread deletion? I wasn't the one that deleted it, as I don't have that capability... But I did see the thread, and I believe it's because the picture wasn't PG-13. And if I remember correctly, there was a caption on it that would clearly explain why, if you didn't see it in the pic.

10th Jul 2009, 11:19 PM	#3
joeyconnick sine qua non Full Member Gender: Male Orientation: Gay Out Status: Out to everyone Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 3,332 Join Date: Apr 2005	Re: thread deletion? Well if that's the case, when did a hint of pubic hair start signifying non-PG-13? You can't see anything about his equipment. And in fact he's so shaved you can barely see pubic hair. Would it be PG-13 if he'd been fully shaved?

10th Jul 2009, 11:30 PM	#4
Martin EC's Red Queen EC Admin Gender: Male Orientation: Gay Out Status: Some people Location: Merseyside, UK Age: 21 Posts: 8,047 Join Date: Nov 2007	Re: thread deletion? Anything below the waistline that reveals bulges or the pubic area (shaved or not) has always been removed. It's a policy that has been enforced before many of the staff (even myself) joined the team, and it's one that is frequently enforced inside celebrity picture threads in fun and games, such as the hot males thread. Whether or not it's suitable for a PG-13 site isn't up to me or anybody else to call. The staff who deal with these are told what standards we're expected to follow and we follow them. It's not our place to review pictures on an individual basis and decide whether we think they're unsuitable or not. If it has something shown that we're told is not allowed (in this case the exposure of the pubic area) then we remove it. __________________ The blue whale ejaculates up to 40 gallons during sexual intercourse, but only 10 gallons enters the female. Do you still wonder why the sea tastes salty?

11th Jul 2009, 02:39 AM	#5
Paul_UK Former Empty Closets Admin Full Member Gender: Male Orientation: Gay Out Status: Out to everyone Location: Bournemouth, UK Age: 47 Posts: 13,155 Join Date: Nov 2004	Re: thread deletion? Some may suggest that a certain amount of pubic hair or a certain amount of bulge is OK, while more isn't. But when you start taking that sort of approach it becomes more subjective and difficult to quantify. How much is "some" and how can we ensure that questionable images are dealt with consistently by different staff? By setting a definable threshold we all know what is OK and what isn't and can deal with things efficiently without needing much discussion about whether or not a certain image passes or not. The definition was set by the site owners early-on, it works, and we see no reason to change it. __________________ Paul

11th Jul 2009, 03:40 AM	#6
George Banned Gender: Male Orientation: Gay Out Status: Out to everyone Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 19 Posts: 2,387 Join Date: Jul 2007	Re: thread deletion? If you guys were really enforcing this rule properly then this thread would have been deleted ages ago. A few examples of some pictures on the thread. >_> And there's loads more throughout the thread. >_> Last edited by Martin; 11th Jul 2009 at 03:56 AM.. Reason: removed pictures

11th Jul 2009, 03:55 AM	#7
Martin EC's Red Queen EC Admin Gender: Male Orientation: Gay Out Status: Some people Location: Merseyside, UK Age: 21 Posts: 8,047 Join Date: Nov 2007	Re: thread deletion? Well it may surprise you to know, but we don't just sit there watching every single post that gets posted on the site. That thread has been warned enough and is now being discussed about a permanent removal now that it has been brought to our attention, but just because they're visible doesn't mean we've ignored them. You would find multiple posts inside that thread from staff warning members, so let's not do selective quoting here because I could find a lot more deleted photos in there that we have spotted and dealt with. Edit: As for the hot girls game thread, that's being discussed with staff who are more familiar with its thread history. __________________ The blue whale ejaculates up to 40 gallons during sexual intercourse, but only 10 gallons enters the female. Do you still wonder why the sea tastes salty?

11th Jul 2009, 05:12 AM	#9
Maddy Free Hugs EC Admin Gender: - Orientation: Into girls Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 21 Posts: 7,704 Join Date: Mar 2008	Re: thread deletion? It's easy for something to get buried in a thread as long as that. If someone sees something questionable, it's best to report it because we might not have seen it. We make mistakes or don't notice things sometimes, because we're human, but we do try. __________________ how strange it is to be anything at all [Victor] 2:09 pm: and then halloween happened and I was outside in a skirt.

11th Jul 2009, 12:52 PM	#10
Chip EC Advisor EC Admin Gender: Male Orientation: Gay Out Status: Out to everyone Location: northern CA Posts: 5,581 Join Date: May 2008	Re: thread deletion? Hi, George, I don't know if you've ever moderated a large forum with a huge number of new posts every day, but it really isn't as easy as it might seem. There is no process where every post passes by a moderator's eyes automatically. The mods all read the threads on the board every day, and anything egregious will certainly get caught, but it's inevitable that things will slip through. And that's why the community reporting system exists, because the eyes of thousands of users are going to catch things that the eyes of a dozen staff members might not. Likewise, it is nearly impossible to write policy that can be applied with 100% consistency 100% of the time by different moderators. I've moderated a number of boards, and I happen to think that the policies that EC has established over the years are a lot more complete and consistent than most of the other communities I've been involved with. But there's always a judgement call, and you can't guarantee that every moderator will always make the exact same judgement. But on the whole, I think the moderators at EC are a lot more consistent, and speak with a unified voice more frequently than the mod teams on many other boards I've been involved with. It's simply impossible to produce policy that will cover every instance and every situation. That's why, for example, we have the Supreme Court in the US; so they can look at the law and interpret it in a given situation, thus ensuring that a multitude of viewpoints and opinions will be considered. And even then, in a famous Supreme Court decision regarding what is obscene, one of the judges said "I can't define obscenity in writing, but i know it when I see it." So sometimes, with the best of policies, we're still left with that. There may not always be 100% agreement -- you can never please everyone -- but I think EC staff does a pretty good job on the whole.